Shitcoin Insider #004 - The Ripple Effect

[00:00:00] Speaker A: We have got a great Shitcoin insider for you guys today. Welcome back to the show. If you missed our first three episodes, don't forget to subscribe as these were not posted on the Bitcoin audible feed. But we had an excellent time with episode one, digging into the token printing mess that is defi. We covered the various smells of the bitcoin forks in episode two and then dove into the consequences of the move fast and break things mentality in Ethereum with the help of Udi Wertheimer in episode three. And now on the dawn of an SEC indictment, a filing full of dirty unethical tactics, the exchange delistings of xrp, the price crash and the alignment of Jupiter. It's time to take a closer look at Ripple. My co host is back for this one. And we have another anonymous guest today who will be known as Max. But he has been working in the industry for many years and has done quite a bit of research around Ripple. Before we dive in, I want to thank the team over at the Hexa Mobile Wallet. A great wallet to hold your keys on mobile and for just general day to day bitcoin use. Also level co for mobile bitcoin banking services and an exchange with no trading fees. And Then lastly the Bitbox 02 hardware wallet for your secure, simple and elegant bitcoin cold storage solution. You can check out all of these awesome [email protected] and with that, let's get into today's chat with our Shitcoin insiders. This is episode four, the Ripple Effect. Bitcoin maximalists trying to make sense of the sea of shitcoins. This is Shitcoin Insider. [00:02:10] Speaker B: Foreign. We have got two insiders. We've got our co host back today. Welcome. [00:02:20] Speaker A: Thank you, thank you, I'm glad. [00:02:22] Speaker B: Are you still undercover or. [00:02:24] Speaker C: I am very undercover. [00:02:25] Speaker B: Very undercover. Okay, well I'm glad you found a quiet little corner so that you could, you could join us back on the show. It is good to have you back, sir. And we have another insider, one who is a Ripple expert joining us. Max. Thank you for joining us, Max. [00:02:47] Speaker D: Hey, I'm happy to be here. [00:02:51] Speaker B: All right, so we are diving into Ripple. Is that Ripple the company? We got the company, we got the token XRP and they claim they're two different things. SEC claims otherwise. And there is just an unbelievable mountain of crap around this and I'm absolutely stoked. I am stoked that we are diving into this. First off, Max, why don't you introduce yourself? However much you are, I know you're also undercover, so we don't want to spilled too many beans, but tell us who you are and what you know about Ripple. [00:03:36] Speaker D: Yeah, so I am a software engineer and I develop bitcoin wallets. I've been working in the industry for about two to three years now. And, you know, I came across Ripple pretty early on, and it actually piqued my interest at first, but before, I really, really dove in and was able to kind of figure out what was going on there. So a lot of my knowledge came from the early times where I thought that Ripple might be the revolutionary technology that they were marketing themselves to be. So, admittedly, there was a point in time where I did think that it was pretty compelling stuff. But, you know, I guess throughout time you learn more and more and, you know, your opinions change. So here we are today. [00:04:34] Speaker B: We all dabble. We all dabbled a little bit in shitcoins. [00:04:37] Speaker D: Yep. Definitely. [00:04:41] Speaker B: Co host over there. What did. Did you ever. Did you ever dabble in Ripple? Did you ever go. [00:04:46] Speaker C: I mean, I never. I. Fortunately, I did not. I did, you know, in 2017, when I saw it was on its little run, I, you know, I speculated there, but I never. I never believed in the. The ripple. You know, it was pretty clear as far as shitcoins go to me, anyway, at all times that it didn't seem to have a future. It was one of those coins, actually, you know, regulators for a long time or lawmakers, when they looked at bitcoin, when they first heard about bitcoin, of course, their first instinct was like, well, go turn it off. Go turn that thing off. We don't want people making their own money. That's dangerous. People are gonna get scammed. Go turn it off. Tell them, no, it's obviously illegal. And then they had to be told by smarter people, well, you can't turn it off. It's called a blockchain. It's a centralized. Sorry, but we can't turn off it. You know, it took them a while to figure this out, but they, you know, they trust the smart people and they said, oh, okay, so now you got stuff like Ripple, which is straight up scam, basically, which without bitcoin, the regulators or lawmakers would have just said, hey, go turn it off. And they would have turned it off. But now they're confused by bitcoin and they're like, oh, this must be one of those blockchain things. I guess we can't turn it off. But. But the case of Ripple, they need to, like, you know, they have to. It's not bitcoin and you absolutely can turn it off, so. [00:06:25] Speaker B: Oh, I'm muted. It's, it seems to be actually pretty easy to turn it off. I mean, as soon as they filed their, did their filing, they've turned off like 80% of its value pretty, pretty quick. But holy crap. Some of the stuff in this. But I, I, God, I really want to get into it because I've just got like bullet point after bullet point of some of the stuff in this filing. But so this is though, just in a general idea, particularly for people who maybe are just kind of trying to figure out what the hell Ripple is. So this is basically, it is a blockchain, right? Like it is a copy pasta of, of bitcoin code. Yeah, break that down for us. [00:07:17] Speaker D: Yeah, so Ripple is not a bitcoin fork. It was kind of developed from scratch. It's different from the Ethereum account based model. It's different from the bitcoin based UTXO model. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Okay, so it's not. [00:07:35] Speaker D: So Ripple and Stellar are the two kind of in their little special league there and it's kind of its own thing. So. Yeah, it's not a bitcoin clone or anything like that. [00:07:52] Speaker B: Is there like, what's the quote unquote consensus model that they're using? Is it like a proof of stake sort of thing? [00:08:01] Speaker D: No, it's not. It's actually, the algorithm is called consensus and it's very simplified kind of model where it's really just ordering transactions based on their timestamp. So the way the network decides or the way the network prevents double spends is literally just looking at the timestamps of the transactions. And if one transaction happened before another one or the second transaction is a double spend, they will just eliminate that transaction altogether. So their consensus mechanism is very, very simplified and it's because they weren't really focusing on things like censorship, resistance. They were focused a lot more on things like throughput and performance. [00:08:54] Speaker B: Well, it seems like that would be really easy to just like as soon as you have like a couple of adversaries in the network, like, I mean you basically need a trusted source of information because I mean the timestamps aren't reliable. I mean it's like something known in Bitcoin is that, you know, you have to have that, that gap of like an hour or two hours, whatever it is of being able to accept a timestamp because you just never know like the accuracy of a timestamp. You know, like we have blocks that actually come after a, another block. In Bitcoin that has an earlier timestamp. Rare, but, you know, nonetheless. Like, so how do they deal with adversaries? How do you deal with, like, an attack? [00:09:41] Speaker D: So every node has kind of like a configuration of trusted nodes that it listens to. It's called the unl, I think it's the Unified Node List. And at first, this. Or actually not at first, even still to this day, it's a list that Ripple Inc. Maintains. And so when you download a Ripple node, it comes preconfigured with a list of nodes to only peer to. And those are the nodes that have been blessed by Ripple as legitimate. And so that is their main mechanism for basically preventing adversaries and dealing with that type of thing. [00:10:26] Speaker C: So if there actually is, like, if one of those approved nodes lies, there is nothing. We're just trusting that they're not going to do that. [00:10:39] Speaker D: Yeah. I assume Ripple would remove them from the list and they would basically just be banished from the network. [00:10:47] Speaker B: Interesting. So they developed a new method using trusted third parties to achieve consensus. [00:10:55] Speaker C: Well, really, it's what we already had before. [00:10:59] Speaker B: No, I know. It's no different than, you know, that's the bad joke. [00:11:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:07] Speaker D: And one thing is that's interesting is that Ripple claims that, you know, you could configure your node however you want, which is true. You can configure your node however you want and to peer to whoever you want, but there's really no evidence that anybody on the network is doing that, like, whatsoever. [00:11:26] Speaker C: So do you guys remember about maybe a year ago, somebody made an app for Ripple, maybe it was a year and a half ago, and Ripple blockchain, just like you can on some other big blockchains like BSV and whatever, and they actually, like, threatened to ban this guy from the network because they said that his app was, like, destructive and they like the node. The. The validators, like, ordered him to, like, take down his GitHub and, like, you know, not do that. [00:12:03] Speaker B: Good God. That's amazing. I mean, not surprising. Not surprising at all. And I don't think I knew about it, but one thing I find really interesting about that is, well, obviously you've not got a permissionless network, right? Like, is that if you don't do something that the owners of the network or if you do something that the owners of the network don't like, or, you know, you build something that they're. [00:12:29] Speaker C: Like the network too much. To me, it proved. I mean, it already kind of knew, but it was just proof that they built something that doesn't actually even scale. I mean, one of the great things about Bitcoin is we know what it looks like when you pound it to the max. You could put fortnite levels of people on Bitcoin tomorrow. Granted, they won't all get their transaction through in the next 24 hours, but the network's still going to go through. And whoever does play by the rules, in other words, whoever does bid the best rate for their transaction is going to be processed in the next 10 minutes. Then it works, going to work just fine. The people who pay for the privilege of getting on the block space are going to get it. And you know, and we know what's like, we know what's going to happen. The network is designed, it works very well, even under extreme load. I mean, as long as you don't mind to pay. That's another. That's another. That's why it works. But with Ripple and so many other networks, they don't even. Like they, if you actually use them to the extent they're configured to allow you to use them, like, they would literally stop working. They would crash. They are like marketing facades. They are like a paper castle built to look like a real castle to attract tourist volumes, to get the same ticket price that a real castle gets, you know, but. But they hope that they don't actually have to be used as a castle though, because if they do, like, you're gonna find out really quick that, you know, it's not one. [00:14:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Still blows my mind that even to this day after, like, you know, we had the episode about BSV and stuff about how like they had, what was it, 10 megabytes or 20 megabyte blocks? Like something. Something that was a bare fraction of what they claim they should be able to do and that it took like 11 or 12 minutes. It took time just to, just to download and validate the block, just to compute the, the validity of what was in the block so that everybody basically just. If they were validating, they were going to immediately start falling behind. Like there was. You couldn't even catch up with the network. And, and if they weren't validating, well, then nobody's validating and you don't have any decentralization or security. You have no idea what you're doing. You just trust in somebody else again. And Ripple is a great example of this. In fact, there was a really great thread that I saved, the nudb. Do you know what the NU stands for by chance? [00:15:14] Speaker D: Max, I'm not, I'm not sure. [00:15:18] Speaker B: Okay. It's it's like the name of XRP's database or something like that. I just, he just kept using nudb and I, I never actually figured out what that was. But their, their blockchain essentially is 9 TB and. [00:15:35] Speaker D: Sounds about right. [00:15:36] Speaker B: And that was actually, that was in December 2018. So two years later, two extra years is nine terabytes. The entire state could be 18 terabytes or more. But basically we don't have full nodes that are with technically the entire thing, but just massive amounts of data. And there's actually an explorer, like an XRP chart thing that just shows that more than half of the nodes, even though there's like so few nodes, more than half of them are unstable. Like they don't stay in sync and they don't actually operate. Like you can't request information from them and know that you're getting back decent information. Like it might not be caught up in sync. Can't validate like that sort of thing. [00:16:31] Speaker C: You can't Even the ones that are in sync, they're missing a lot of early data. And I think that Max probably will go into this but like they lost their history at one point and they had to kind of like fake it back. [00:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I was about to say like, I know there's like some things on that, like even now, today, maybe like the first 30000 blocks or something, you just. [00:16:55] Speaker C: Yeah, no, the history is not like, they don't. There's a, there's a blackout spot where they just trust because they don't know what happened. [00:17:04] Speaker B: That's lawful. That's beautiful. Do you have details on this? [00:17:08] Speaker D: Yeah, so. So first of all, yeah, a lot of these nodes are not in sync. If you look at the list of nodes on the network and I haven't tried to run a ripple node myself mainly because I don't have 10 terabytes of storage laying around. But I have heard from people at Coinmetrics that it's like incredibly difficult to run a ripple node. And you know, Ethereum gets a ton of flack for this as well. But you know, according to people who actually have hands on experience with this, it's even more difficult to run a ripple node. So as far as the missing blocks go, well, they're actually called ledgers and so it's like every second or I'm not sure, like how quickly it updates. It's somewhere, it's very quick. They call it. This is a new. This is the new ledger. Yeah, they're missing tens of thousands of ledgers in the early, early days of the network. And funny enough, those missing ledgers are around the time that XRP was being doled out to the founders and being given to Ripple Inc. And it seems to be that a lot of people believe that there was full on like network resets going on where like all the coins were just being reset. And yeah, basically ripple Inc. Got 80 billion of the hundred billion coins and then the two founders, Jed McCaleb and Chris Larson, got the remaining 20 billion XRP tokens. And yeah, I guess one of the running theories is that this allotment happened during that blackout period. And now the CTO of Ripple, David Schwartz, says that it was actually just a software bug and that there's nothing to worry about and that anybody running a Ripple node today, I believe he said that it's, that it's basically unimportant or that they, you know, that those block blanked out ledgers are of no significance or importance to a user today. [00:19:36] Speaker B: It seems like those would. Whoops. Seems like those would be the prime blocks or, excuse me, the, the most important ledgers to not be able to audit, particularly during an SEC lawsuit. [00:19:53] Speaker D: I wouldn't be surprised if that does, you know, become a point of interest there. So yeah, it is true that it's, it is impossible to do like a full audit on, on the like Ripple ledger history because there are points in time where there's just flat out missing state. [00:20:15] Speaker B: So it's not even, it's. And it's the most important time. It's like, it's, it's like the origin of it. So what happened? Where did this come from? Who made it? Who owned it? It's like, oh, well, that information isn't important. Trust us, it was fine. [00:20:35] Speaker D: Yeah, it's, I mean it's, it kind of goes, it kind of speaks to I think the disconnect between like Ripple and the rest of the space. Like, it seems like they're missing like a lot of like the, the ethos or like a lot of like the things that like make this special. And like to come out and say that like all of these missing ledgers, you know. Well, you know, that's, it's just part of our system or whatever. It's, it's like, it just seems like, you know, like. Well, is, that's kind of like part of the whole point. Maybe you're like just kind of brushing it under the rug. [00:21:13] Speaker C: Yeah, you, you nailed it there. That's one of the reasons why I never like, I guess fell for it was because, like, you know, you do your little initial. When you're looking at all these new things and you kind of do your little initial due diligence, like, you know, who got the early coins and what's the inflation and this, that, you know, your little coin due diligence and like, Ripple failed immediately. Like, didn't even. Didn't even get past the first few, like, little due diligence markers before it's like, no, not touching this one. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Yeah, there's no. Like that. That's the one that just is so hard to understand. If people don't value like, the beauty of bitcoin, like, what makes it so powerful is the fact that it's independent, is the fact that it provides these assurances that you own something based on a provable set of rules. And that requires, like, if you just drop the first, you know, hundred thousand blocks of bitcoin, we wouldn't know anything about any of the bitcoin. All of it would be meaningless because that's how we decide whether or not the entire any of the rules were actually ever followed. If we just go back to a point where suddenly you just can't check the rules anymore, well, then what is it? More than half of the bitcoin supply, you know, that came out in the first, you know, the 50, 50 world ward blocks or whatever is just. Might as well just be just okay, who. Who owns them, who got them? Where any of it fair? Were there ever a set of rules here that were followed for any reason whatsoever? We don't know, like, all the assurances are gone. Everything else is just arbitrary because you can't check it. You can't prove anything about what you're using. And then at the same time is to say that your proof is, I'm going to check a couple of trusted nodes that Ripple told me to use. It's like, why even have the history there if you're a trusting a group of people and then you want to check the work after you ask them for the proof. And it's like, oh, well, don't even, don't even worry about where it came from. We. We just don't. We as happen to not have the proof, but connect only to us and then trust us when we don't give you an answer. It's ridiculous. [00:23:36] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's really hard for me to believe that there were not shenanigans going down. I mean, because as Max has said too, like, they never respected the crypto ethos. Like, to them, I think, like, these Were, you know, Joel and them. These are technical guys that saw an opportunity to make money, and they. They executed a plan that made them money. And part of that plan included, like, well, we need to, like, change some of the, you know, initial distribution here. Well, okay. Well, just won't write that part down. You know, I mean, like, what's the big deal? We discarded the point. [00:24:16] Speaker B: Well, this is. This. You. You make a point is that you said they saw an opportunity to make money. This is the thing from the filing that was just amazing to me. First off is that they asked. Apparently there's a history of this, and they spoke with legal counsel about XRP, about doing this, and they were basically explicitly told that this is going to be an investment contract and it will be. It will be thought of as a security. And they went ahead and did it anyway. Now, there's an in this. As you keep going through this SEC filing, you end up figuring out exactly why that was the case, is that they were broke. They were. They. They completely lacked the funds they had planned. They had started into all of these, like, endeavors in these projects, and they could not pay their business expenses. So back in 2013 and 2014, they had expenses of $25 million that they could not cover before selling XRP. So they went ahead and did this. And literally, ever. Ever since then, all they have. What they have done to fund their business expenses, which they use in so many different examples, it's just been selling xrp. That's all they did. So they were broke. They couldn't afford to continue with the projects that they started. So they invented an XRP token, as you said. They gave 80% to ripple the company, and then the rest to, I guess, the founders and Garlinghouse and whoever else was involved at. Did Garlinghouse come in later or something? Because I know he got, like, $160 million worth. [00:26:14] Speaker D: Yeah, he came in later. He wasn't one of the founders of the company, but definitely owns a lot of xrp. Definitely has, you know, an interest in its price. [00:26:26] Speaker B: Yeah. But they just. They just started selling it, and they've been paying everybody. They've been giving everybody XRP as payment because they don't have any money. So they just made their own money. And they've been using the hype and however much that they pulled in from this $1.3 billion sale of a shitcoin token that just came out of nowhere, and they've been using it to pump up and manipulate the price so that they can keep funding their operations from 2014 through to the end of 2019 just to fund operations. Ripple sold 3.9 billion XRP for $763 million. [00:27:20] Speaker D: They just, and they're not even, you know, they, they come out and say, you know, we fund our operations through selling xrp. Like it's there. It's not even like they're trying to hide the fact that that's, you know, the game that they're playing. It's, you know, they flat out said it publicly before any of this SEC stuff came out that we make, we make like basically all of our money, you know, through XRP sales. [00:27:46] Speaker B: So that's so crazy. And they have the. One of the things that I think was new or at least, I mean, I think this is like pretty widely known that this is done all over the place in the shitcoin space. So many, so many of the scammy altcoins. I mean you could just look at, see the telegram groups or whatever, the pump and dump groups just all over the place, right? Everybody's like, keep the price, keep the price here. Let's everybody flood in. Let's make a whole lot of volume, spread out some news, make some hype about it on social media and stuff, get all the noobs coming in and then we can dump on them. And when you have these low liquidity, like really small, low volume tokens, it's really easy to do that with, you know, like a hundred, two hundred people in a group that's, you know, where there's millions and millions of dollars moving around. It's really easy to manipulate these prices. Well, there are other things that, where people have basically said no. What they're doing and people that they were actually working with have spoken and explained that this was going on as well, is that they had four, what they refer to as market sales specialists that were designed. They created a, you know, a program, they just wrote a script or whatever. And the Ripple would literally just tell them, okay, like let's make a price floor here. And then at the exact same time, they would then tell their marketing team to come up with some hype to post. They literally said, figure out something whether you're taking some partnership or whatever that we already had from six months ago, spin it to make it sound new, figure out how to push an update, whether it's arbitrary, come up with some sort of hype. Everybody start talking about it, everybody start posting about it. Keep the price floor here with our market salespeople. And then let's pump it up, get lots of volume so that we can then dump again and continue funding. [00:30:11] Speaker C: Ripple pioneered the shitcoin PR and dump strategy that is now like imitated by so many other shit coins that have in many cases come and gone. If you think of like Iota did it very well. But when you. And I've, you know, had to do some marketing in the past in the, in the blockchain space and one of the things that you know are highly sought after when you type on Google and you type anything with the word Ripple in it and you get those little like news stories that appear under the search bar but not in the search results, those aren't ads, those are syndicated news sources that Google is saying, okay, these are basically news sources that we trust talking about this thing. So here's what they have to say. And you can pay to be placed on those syndicated news like list. You're basically paying for stories. So when you type Ripple, probably even now, I don't know, I haven't checked in a while, you're gonna see like, oh, Ripple is, you know, Western Union is so great with Ripples. With Western Union now, obviously, because now you're going to see Western Union denied that they ever use Ripple technology and only dumps Ripple when they get it. Like, and, and, and, and so when you, when you, when you type in a shitcoin name and you see those big news blobs underneath, those are syndicated posts. Those are very valuable. And Ripple does a lot of that. I mean, they, they're probably spending millions of dollars a month on, on PR and marketing. But it's well worth it because they dump, what is it, $50 million every month, or at least they were. I don't know if it's going to be impacted by the new legal trouble they're in, but, you know, they're like the gold standard for this. And also, you know, as somebody who I have to shamefully admit have, I've run bots before. I've run, you know, Twitter campaigns and all that stuff. I've been, you know, I've been in the dirt. That's why I'm the COIN insider. I'm hands are very dirty. But I'll tell you that whoever Ripple has on their payroll is like basically the world class of like Twitter botting and Telegram botting and like, it's, it's whatever your COIN project would aspire to is basically what Ripple does because they have it all. And they, I mean, it's very. When you know what to look for when you've, especially when you've done it before. And you, like, you know what you're like, they've got teams of people, I don't know, like, maybe they've got some possible deniability liability between them and whoever they're hiring to do this. I would hope anyway, for their sake. But maybe they're not that smart. Who knows? Maybe it'll all come out one day. But they've got teams of people posting on Twitter. It's ridiculous. You can see the three people that have exposed it where they'll show like 30 different Twitter accounts literally copy pasting the same narrative in response to people's posts about Ripple, like word for word, because that's what they're being paid to put out there. One of the new narratives, really, really frustrating because it, it's, it's taking, it's like taking advantage of the goodwill of the crypto community in many ways. And, and, and to people that are like, still naive because crypto is new, so it potentially is very damaging. But the new narrative they're pushing now is that, you know, bitcoin is China coin and it's just, it's all Chinese and Ripple is the American crypto blockchain. So if you are a patriot, like you support Ripple, like, not this Chinese coin, like China's trying to manipulate you into using their money. You want to use American money. Don't let those evil senators and lawmakers and policymakers try to stop our American ingenuity and innovation. [00:34:18] Speaker B: Ripple America, Yeah, that's the one that Garlinghouse I've seen like, has been posting like crazy. Is that bitcoin's just run by China Ripples. At least run by America Ripples freedom scams. [00:34:35] Speaker D: You know, I'd, I'd be, I'd be pretty shocked if, if Ripple Inc. Was like actually bankrolling the XRP army and like the Twitter bots and everything. [00:34:45] Speaker C: I wouldn't, shouldn't be shocked. It's definitely happening. Or okay, so maybe, I mean, I don't know who else would spend that money. So I mean, maybe some other whale that's like highly heavily invested is fake rolling it himself, but I doubt that. [00:35:01] Speaker D: Yeah, so I think it's possible. Like, you know, there are plenty of third party stakeholders and nobody even really knows who these stakeholders are. [00:35:10] Speaker B: It's decentralized spamming. [00:35:12] Speaker D: It could be like running the pump campaigns. But it seems, you know, obviously pretty apparent. Like, especially back in like 2017, it was the XRP. Like, posting and commenting on Twitter was like, just absolutely crazy. And you know, I feel like I Don't know. I would be. I would be pretty shocked if, like, Brad Garlinghouse was sitting there like, oh, yeah, like, let's, like, run these crazy botting campaigns. But I was also, you know, shocked when I saw like, the price supporting and the stuff in the SEC filing where they were like, actively, like, quote unquote, trying to, like, protect investors by supporting the price and like, you know, doing these press releases at specific times and whatnot. [00:36:05] Speaker B: So, you know, there was another one where they were paying. Oh, they're real quick. Just because it's like, right on that point. There's another one where they were paying exchanges for. Well, it's referred to as a money transmitter. So I'm not sure who that is or exactly that it's not listed. They were paying them often in xrp, as it was said, to make fake volume so that when they were buying or selling, their volume didn't look like it was a majority of the market. Like, so they were paying to have fake volume put in so that they looked like a smaller portion of the market. And to basically have this. I mean, it seemed. It sounds like in my mind, I haven't seen anything explicit yet about, like, paying, you know, Twitter army, but I have seen a lot of bots, like, particularly, like you said, Max, in 2017. Holy crap. It was just, it was sock puppet accounts left and right. [00:37:15] Speaker C: I can tell you most of the companies that are doing that are not exactly, like, they don't exactly have like, a website and a, you know, an office building. So I'd be curious to know is. [00:37:29] Speaker D: How expensive it is. Like, maybe you have some insight into this. Is it expensive to run one of these campaigns? [00:37:36] Speaker C: Because what they're doing would be pretty expensive. I can tell you. In 2017, I was able to charge $20,000 a month just for, like, less than $20,000 a month. Got you, like, less than 10 good Reddit posts with lots of fake comments. [00:38:04] Speaker B: On them, like, activity and just. And all that. [00:38:08] Speaker C: So, like, less than 10. Less than 10. Well, like, like heavy Reddit posts, full of shills in the popular places for 20,000 and up, up to $50,000 a month. And that was just for your Reddit campaign. Your Twitter is going to be different, your telegram is going to be different. You're, you know, so. And that was how robust. That's what I'm doing. I'm not, you know, on the scale of whatever XRP is doing, how robust. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Would you say that market is? [00:38:50] Speaker C: What do you mean by robust? [00:38:51] Speaker B: Like, like, like how. How prevalent I guess a lot of competition. [00:38:58] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a lot of competition there. It's like, it's a huge market. I mean, it was like everybody was. When everybody's doing it, basically, if you look. And it's not the case anymore because the ICO hype is gone now. But like, at that time, if I went to Reddit, like, I'm seeing all my competition. If I go to like any post that you see, like, you know, and this should be obvious to anybody who's done marketing, but if you haven't done marketing, maybe it isn't obvious to you, but like, you know, top four cryptocurrencies that are going to help, you know, create a greener future. That's how for listening, the way that we would do it is usually going to be like three, like, well established, like name brand things that everybody knows that you're not being paid to promote, and then one little like tiny coin that nobody knows about that you want to look like the other. So that's like an example. [00:39:57] Speaker B: And then, so you're like putting it in, you're, you're inserting it in. [00:40:01] Speaker C: This group makes the article. We pay somebody to host. We pay a new site to host the article. The four companies that are great, whatever, we pay somebody to host it, we link to it from Reddit and then in the comments it's all, oh, wow, this company number four. I've heard of that. Super promising. That's going to be big. Like, and then all the people on Reddit go and they read it, they see the article on this new site and they look at the comments like, oh, what's this coin number four that's being compared. Like, I know these three. What's this? Like, I don't know what this is. This must be, you know, some hot new thing. And then that's so crazy. [00:40:39] Speaker D: Pretty fascinating how Reddit is, I guess. Reddit users are known to have deep pockets, like, as far as the marketing, like, side of things goes. Because whenever somebody's like looking to pump a coin, it seems like, you know, Reddit is the place to be. [00:40:57] Speaker C: And also, you know, you can, you can, people will pay you to be 4chan savvy. There's a lot of pockets there. But Ripple is in all these places, is represented in all these places. And, and more than you'd think are, are being paid to be there. I know it's like, you know, it almost seems conspiratorial sometimes think like, oh, everybody's paid. But I've literally been I. This Is one of the reasons why I like to say anonymous because. Because there's a lot of, you know, anyway, I've literally been paid by some of the largest mining companies, which I will not say which in the world, to essentially promote a fork or clone or copy of some coins that may share a mining algo that they don't want to, you know, they want to be promoted, whatever, because of their hardware. And part of the job is like basically taking community members from the. The relevant coins. And I've had people, you know, say in the comments, like, this is just, you know, backed by big miners. This isn't, you know, this is fake social media. What do you call it? [00:42:20] Speaker B: Shilling or sock puppeting. [00:42:23] Speaker C: Yeah, this is like all sock puppets. This is paid by big mining. Like, you know, it's not real. And I remember this one guy, like everything he said was exactly right, but like, obviously like, I can't say that. And then he just got downvoted like 50 times and knocked off the page and like, like 20 guys told him he's a dumbass. Which were all basically being paid by big miners. Yes, he was right. And he'll never know he was right, but he was exactly 100 right. And I, it was like a surreal moment for me where I'm thinking like, wow, yeah, like all those times I probably had those thoughts, I was probably right too. Like maybe he's getting doubled to hell and like 20 people are telling him he's done. [00:43:04] Speaker B: And all the, like, it's all speculation because, you know, you don't know whether or not that's happening. But it's like all the incentives are there particularly for like a mining company. Right? Is it to have another coin that is using the hashing algorithm is that if you can prop that one up like it would absolutely be beneficial to them to have a secondary use for their coin or a way to be like, well, when this one becomes unprofitable and the hash rate goes too high on bitcoin or whatever it is. Well, why don't you mine on bitcoin cash? It's got the same algorithm. Just switch right over your mining equipment. [00:43:44] Speaker C: More of them with the big more than with the bitcoin stuff. If you think about some of these other algos that aren't as popular. Yeah, they make hardware for that and like, if a coin becomes big on that algo, they're gonna sell a bunch of miners. Like the bitcoin is very saturated, but like other smaller algos, I don't want to be specific about which ones? If you can hype up a coin on those algos especially like maybe there was a popular coin on that algo, but like maybe it's been dying off. So you need like, you know, those miners. Like that line of your product is about to be obsolete. You need something and also for your own machines you may have, you know, tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars worth of these equipment already. And like you need something to put them on. So you need like, you know, it's nothing to you to pay. I remember one of our projects, the budget was going to be. I'm hoping that these guys message me and like, you know, hey, I heard you talking about that. You shouldn't talk about that because some of them might listen to your show. But our, but let's just say our budget was very big every month and yeah, and it was nothing to them because like what they stand to make, they've got, you know, tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars worth of hardware that they need to point at something. So you know, spending some money on some priorities, basically trying to be like Ripple is worth it. And, and Ripple, like I said, is the pioneer of this. Ripple was the one that like invented how to be a really shady market based shitcoin with no utility. Like they wrote the book on that. They've done it better than anybody else and they probably were the first customer for many of these services that ended up finding clients with other coins. [00:45:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean their utility is basically to fund their operations. It's just, it's just their utility, their utility is to just dump it on other people so that they can make money. And what's funny is that they're up their expenses like this was, this was about to blow up anyway. In fact the sec, the SEC filing came probably like almost in a sense saved them because they're going to run out of xrp. Except for the fact that I did actually read some articles where they were actually claiming that we needed, that they needed quantitative easing, which I don't know if that was them trying to prepare to be able to make a whole bunch of, whole bunch more XRP for themselves so that they could sell it. But I was telling you that the, I mentioned that their operating expensive expenses back in 2013 and 14 were like $25 million. Well, apparently the last data point that they have is 2018 and their expenses have increased. They've just gotten bigger and more expensive. It's $275 million now. So they're going to Just, they're just bleeding money. The only reason they're not bleeding money is because they're selling XRP to people. [00:46:58] Speaker C: You wouldn't want to be a Ripple employee right now. I think you don't have a lot of job security at this point in time, in my opinion. [00:47:07] Speaker D: So yeah, Ripple has the way they, the way their XRP sales work or whatever is they get a billion XRP tokens every month to unlock at some point. Yeah. So really real early on they were just holding this huge chunk of XRP and the market was like, well, this is like a huge liability because you could do. You guys would dump 70% of the supply on the market if you really wanted to. And so Ripple came back and they said, okay, well the ledger has this time lock feature and we can lock these tokens up so they progress. You know, they iteratively become unlocked every month. And so they put it in a system where every month 1 billion XRP gets unlocked and that Ripple can do what they please with those 1 billion XRP tokens. And so what they do is they will sell some of it or give some of it away and then they take the remaining left and re lock it up, basically putting it at the end of that line. So they, that is kind of what they've been doing. But at a price of say 20 cents a token, I think a billion tokens would come out to $200 million. So like, yeah, they might be like outrunning, you know, I'm not really sure like what their expenses and stuff actually are. But it would be kind of funny if the amount of XRP they were unlocking every month wasn't even enough to cover. [00:48:52] Speaker B: What an arbitrary empty thing too is that we're going to give you trusted nodes. You can't even check the full history or validate the rules of these tokens. But we're going to write ourselves a time lock that we could just turn off at any time, but then that'll execute every year or month. Whatever it was, this will execute and this will be our limitation. It's literally like saying, it's like, well, I'm only going to put $100 on my credit card this month. And just trust me that, you know, I can change this. I can change this at any time. I am not held to this for any reason because I am the one that decides what the time lock is or whether or not we remove it, or whether or not you listen to the nodes that have the time lock or remove the time lock. It's so Just so empty. [00:49:46] Speaker D: One thing to note is that there was a point in time where on Ripple's list of trusted nodes, it was just mostly Ripple nodes, but they did come out and say, we want to get to the point where 80% of the nodes on the network are not, you know, Ripple nodes. And so to their credit, they did actually get there. And if you look at the list of nodes on that list, there's, you know, 100 or so and, you know, maybe like 15 of them are Ripple Inc. Nodes. And recently their CTO came out and said, like, hey, if the rest of the network wanted to, you know, burn our, our supply of xrp, like they actually could do that. And what the thing is, is that a lot of the nodes on this list are either stakeholders in Ripple Inc. Like actual stakeholders, or they have similar incentives and motives. So while it appears to be decentralized in a way, it's also, it just wouldn't be in anyone's interest really to, to burn those tokens. Now if I don't, I don't know what's going to be the outcome of this SEC filing. But if somehow, like, Ripple Inc. Ceased to exist or something, the network could continue to operate without Ripple and the rest of the host of the network could technically burn Ripple's XRP holdings. So there is a lot of interesting stuff there. Ripple doesn't have the amount of control over the network that a lot of times is often claimed that they do compared to early on, especially compared to early on. But it's still quite murky because it's not like a decentralized system like Bitcoin, where people running nodes or different stakeholders in a network have completely different incentives. It's, you know, in the case of Ripple, it appears that it's, it's all still very aligned. [00:52:03] Speaker C: So, I mean, and I think the shutting down, the guy with the picture app kind of proved that too. Like, if it were, if you did that on Bitcoin and it were valid according to the rules, like, nobody can stop you. I'm going to make my pictures and we're going to pay whatever it costs to post them. And screw you if you don't like it, Mr. Node Man. Like, we're just gonna. Because it's just that they could even make the threat that they would be able to, to ban Mr. Picture app. You know, they, they, they're coordinated very closely. And in my opinion, you know, they're just, they're just placeholders. Like, I don't think there's any real. Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind Ripple Inc. Calls one of these guys and some says, hey, we're doing this now. They're going to say, okay, let us know how to, like, implement that. You know. [00:52:56] Speaker B: And the other, the other thing to think, though, is it particularly with the kind of the span that I've been watching Ripple, is that like, that started happening when Ripple, the company was trying very hard to distance themselves from Rippled Token, from xrp. And I think it was more of a. Rather than let's make this thing decentralized is that. Let's make this thing not look like it was during the ICO bubble and when there was suddenly all this talk that, oh my God, the SEC is going to come after everybody. I think they were trying to distance themselves from the tokens so that if they could say 80% of the nodes are not us, well, then maybe the SEC can't come after us. You know, it's like. But, but look, it's just, it's the network, it's the community. And, you know, like, they're able to basically get all the benefits early on for the first four years of this thing of running it, completely controlling it, having it permissioned and selling a billion dollars worth of these tokens, dumping it on the market to fund the company, but then try to make it look like they've stepped back and it's like, oh, the community is running this thing. Oh, the nodes are running this thing. It's not us. You know, we're. We're over here at arm's length. It's not even called Ripple, it's called xrp. [00:54:24] Speaker D: Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. Like, the, what does the RP and XRP stand for? Like, it's Ripple. There was, I just remember, like, at some point, like, they. Ripple Inc. Just really started trying to distance themselves from xrp. The token that is the crux of their argument that XRP is not a security is that, hey, XRP existed before Ripple Inc. Existed. Like, the creators of the xrp, the XRP ledger, gifted all of this to us. And therefore, and like, we are supposed to be the stewards of the network now. And we are going to use this XRP strategically to, you know, to build a thriving community. And like, it's all, I mean, it's craziness. It's, it's, it's in the name of the token. Like, you can't tell, say that you don't have anything to do with Token when it's like, in the name. [00:55:28] Speaker C: If I ran like the world's Biggest, like, stolen antique store, let's say there were all these antiques that were, like, stolen from museums or whatever. And I said, well, you know, the entire museum and all the contents of it were just gifted to me, so it's not actually my fault. But now that I have this stuff, like, I'm gonna sell it, you know, and. And make lots of money now. But. But. But I didn't actually. I'm not. You know, I didn't steal it. I don't know who stole it. Somebody just gave it to me out of nowhere, and I just showed up here. [00:56:03] Speaker B: We were just. We just opened up a. We just opened up the front doors, and suddenly all this stuff just came in and. [00:56:09] Speaker C: Yeah, the house. [00:56:10] Speaker B: Sat it down on the floor and left. [00:56:13] Speaker C: But. But one thing that I wanted to. To bring up, too, and kind of touch on is it's really because a lot of people that listen to this, you know, they probably got into crypto in the last maybe three or four years. And it's really hard to appreciate just how small of a world crypto was before, like, 2016 even. But even before that, it was even. You know, it's really hard to appreciate. Like, you know, you would know if you saw, like, somebody say bitcoin on anything on tv, just say the word bitcoin. Like, you'd talk about that to all your friends. Like, they mentioned bitcoin. [00:56:54] Speaker B: Like, we're real. [00:56:55] Speaker C: We're not just a bunch of Internet nerds around. Like, the real people talked about us, like, on the big tv, like, you know what I mean? Like, it was just like a little. It was like little Internet games that you, like, knew was one where one day was gonna, you know, become real, but it wasn't real yet. And stuff like Ripple was even less real. Much less real. So it was almost like having your own little geostudies page where you're, like, tricking people into, like, giving you money on your little geostudies thing. And the next thing you know, like, you're worth billions of dollars. And they're talking about you on cnn. Yeah, like the. They used to do when you were, like, writing on your GeoCities page and getting people to, like, send you checks. Like, you have to, like, very much distance yourself from that. And kind of like you said, you know, you gotta hire lawyers, you gotta, like, hire compliance guys. You gotta, like. It's totally different. But the problem with Ripple is in there, and for them, I mean, is that, like, they started out as one of these. You know, basically, some guys, the GeoCities page. Not the ever had a geocodies page, but you know what I mean? But then like they lasted long enough to turn into like now everything's like official and like so when we see Ripple now it's like a big company with hundreds of employees, you know, this big entity in the real world. [00:58:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it looks like this official, official, big important thing. [00:58:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:24] Speaker B: But like how could it not be real? [00:58:26] Speaker C: It was, it was just a, it was just one literally like a cash grab money scam in the beginning. Like it was literally like just another, you know, hey, send me money to my GeoCities page and I'm gonna, you know, I'll tell you your fortune three times, whatever. [00:58:45] Speaker B: Like one of the most damning things in this SEC filing and just kind of everything that's come to light in the last couple of weeks about it is that a, they've been using XRP to fund their operations. But this is all based on everything about buying XRP was that there was going to be some use for it in the future. And the only products that Ripple actually has don't use xrp, they don't use the Ripple token. And in fact the, to actually put, to actually use the Ripple ledger. That. This is the thing that I can't. Somebody took a screenshot of this from, from the filing and I just thought this was the most, absolutely unbelievable because so many times every single Ripple, whether it's a sock puppet or it's a sad little wrecked victim who just is getting, you know, demolished by a bunch of hypers and the other sock puppets or whoever it is, all the sad investors in Ripple that I feel very sorry for will come in and tell me that Ripple is better technology, it's cheaper, it's going to work, all the banks are going to use it, blah, blah, blah. Well, there is actually again, they don't list who it is, so it's just a, an unnamed entity. But that ODL is what they refer to it as, but that is the, the thing that everybody touts as X Rapid. So X Rapid is supposedly the settlement system for Ripple that uses XRP or whatnot and that everybody was going to use it because it's so cheap, it's so superior, it's just amazing. And. But they refer to it as ODL in the SEC filing, which is on demand liquidity I think is what it stands for. But that they partnered, quote unquote with somebody who, like a banking institution or financial institution someone, I'm sure one of the many partnerships that they announced and you know, got the price to go 100% in a couple of weeks over telling everybody about but they came back after doing a test and said it is way more expensive. They quote found it to be much more expensive and therefore not a product it wished to use without significant compensation from Ripple. [01:01:24] Speaker D: I believe that was Western Union. [01:01:27] Speaker B: You think it's Western Union? [01:01:28] Speaker D: I'm pretty sure. I remember Western Union coming out saying that publicly a few years back when was was trying to court them. The CEO came out and said like we've tested it and it's like doesn't make sense for us to use. [01:01:43] Speaker B: So it is more expensive for them to use this product for to use X Rapid. So Ripple, the company has to pay them in XRP to keep using it so that they'll actually have volume on the ODL market on the X Rapid thing that they can point to and say look everybody's using it. So they are paying the people to actually use it to prop up the price of the token. Which people will say everyone, I'm buying it because everyone will use it because look at all the volume and look at how valuable it's going to be in the future because it's better even though it's worse. And they are selling to the noobs the XRP to make the money to pay off everybody who's fake using it. Like that is their whole fucking feedback loop of scam. It's absolutely unbelievable. [01:02:39] Speaker A: People keep telling me I can't live off of Bitcoin. Not only is that entirely untrue but it is made even more so by the new full mobile banking services from Level Co. That's lvl. They intend to lock the trading fee model into the pages of history offering a no fee exchange on top of bitcoin. Banking services. Send or receive a wire, receive direct deposit, send an ACH transfer or even pay directly using your debit card and you can convert back and forth to dollars at no cost. You can literally use Bitcoin like any other bank account, fully integrated and stop having to touch fiat poverty paper for any longer than is needed to pay your bills. They are available in 28 states across the USA and should be in 49 by the end of 2021. That is Level Co backed by Anthony Pompliano, Willy Woo and Jimmy Song. You can find them at the top of the [email protected] for more details and see if they are available in your area. With that let's get back to the. [01:03:56] Speaker B: Show that people still are just getting it's it's not unbelievable because it's so easy to find false information and to not find this stuff, but it's still just, it's amazing to see something get to that size into, into the billions of dollars. That is so blatantly bullshit. Like top to bottom. [01:04:24] Speaker D: Yeah. So the, you know the, the whole idea with XRP was that it was being marketed as a bridge currency. So you go from Fiat to XRP and then from XRP to a different Fiat and as long as they were sufficiently liquid XRP fiat markets on either end then you could do both transactions fast enough and kind of just ignore the fact that the price of XRP might change in flight. But then stablecoins came along. All of a sudden we got tokenized. [01:05:00] Speaker B: Fiat and it was like well that's 100 times better. [01:05:04] Speaker D: To me that kind of killed a lot of the value proposition there. All of a sudden your amazing cross border payments technology seems a little bit less useful because we have these tokenized stable coins that sure, maybe they don't move quite as fast as xrp but if these are stable coins on ethereum, we're talking 22nd block times anyways. [01:05:31] Speaker B: Their value doesn't move their stable coins and they're fully trusted as Ripple. So what's the trade off there? [01:05:39] Speaker D: And they're far more liquid. Like you know, tether is massively liquid. So you know, it's, I don't, I just feel bad you know, at that point. You know a lot of that, a lot of the value proposition for XRP and that is just kind of, it's a jeopardy. [01:05:58] Speaker B: That was their only excuse. That was the only excuse for it's going to be used. And that one, it just completely went out the window. So now it's just a, it's a means of making it sound like they could do something else with it and that oh yeah, it's gonna go to $100 so buy it now, you know. [01:06:20] Speaker D: Yeah, a lot of these networks don't even work. You know it's like at least the XRP ledger works. I guess that's like, you know it doesn't though. [01:06:32] Speaker C: I mean it, okay, it works at. [01:06:34] Speaker B: Like you can send a transaction, give them that, you can send the transaction to their server. [01:06:40] Speaker C: Basic thing. But if you actually like, you know like the guy who made the image uploading, he's using it according to the rules. But it won't like it'll break, it'll break if you use it too much. So does it really work if it breaks? If you use It, I think that's. [01:06:57] Speaker D: A theme we see across like all these networks is like, you know, the high usage could be, you know, detrimental at a certain point. [01:07:07] Speaker B: So they're saving graces that it's not being used. [01:07:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that that's the case with basically every single blockchain. Even Litecoin, if you think about it, they've got four times bigger blocks. And I know probably saying this, everybody loves Litecoin, but four times bigger blocks and four times more blocks. So you know, they're doing what, 16 megabytes per 10 minutes if they were full. That's well beyond what DCH has shown can be handled by normal nodes. So if they were being hammered and trying to do 16 megabytes with blocks like especially litecoin nodes, like nobody's. I looked and the most litecoins ever done in a block is something like it's less than, it's less than half a meg. It's like 300, it's like 300kb or something. It's ridiculously small. And that was like, like very intermittent spike. Like it was not ever sustained even half, not even a third of a megabyte has ever been sustained. So there, like if you're running a litecoin node, you know, things probably like a PI, you know, cheapest, whatever thing you got, it'll work. If they actually try to push. Imagine trying to push 16 megabytes at every 10 minutes through Litecoin's network. Like the whole thing would just, you could probably do it for a few hundred bucks. You could probably prove it and just crush them. [01:08:39] Speaker B: That would be it. That's, that really is because the scaling claims are, I mean just across the board are absurd. And that's, that's one of the biggest indications of either a scam or just incompetence in my opinion, is when this new token says it can do a million transactions per second and never even mentions the idea or doesn't even allow the suggestion to enter that there is some sort of trade off, that, that there is, that there is anything lost at all insecurity or the guarantees or the ability to audit or the security, like the, the, the hardness of the rules of the system or whether or not you are trusting somebody else or doing the validation yourself. Like none of these, like all the things that are actually interesting in a breakthrough in Bitcoin even come up in the conversation of these others. It's just look at how few transactions bitcoin does and look at how many hours does and it's infinite. There's basically no cap. And like you said, like Ripple doesn't work under load and neither do any of these other ones. I mean, and as we've seen over and over again, when these things have been stressed to the max, when Ethereum couldn't even deal with cryptokitties, could not even deal with like it completely overloaded, the network fees spiked and all that stuff which you know, technically you want to be running at load. You want the, you want the thing to be able to be overloaded and operate normally as expected and something like, you know, blockchain, Tamagotchis or whatever the, the heck the things are, the little cartoon characters or whatever break it. You know, is it like that's not a, that's not a strong financial system. Like that is not a foundation for anything if that's the level that as soon as somebody's posting pictures on, on Ripple that that's when things are suddenly, oh my God, we've got to stop this immediately. It's like you haven't even gotten started. You haven't even gotten started with people actually using the system or figuring out some sort of use case for it. The only thing you've managed to do is dump it on victims, on innocent investors who don't know what they're buying. And the first time somebody is actually trying to use it at the scale that you claim is in a fraction of what its max is, you come down on them with a hammer like, no, you can't do this here. [01:11:41] Speaker C: It really is when you talk about. [01:11:44] Speaker D: All around bad for, you know, for XRP investors right now because first Ripple lets them down, but then the SEC comes out and also destroys the, you know, destroys their bags. Like it was kind of interesting, a former chair of the SEC has come out and said that, you know, these charges that are being brought against Ripple are causing, you know, multi billion dollar losses to, you know, innocent third parties like exchanges and holders and all these other stakeholders in Ripple that exist now. It's like, you know, they just got wrecked by the SEC after getting wrecked by Ripple. Like it's just a tough life. [01:12:27] Speaker C: You know, I don't think that Ripple is going to be protected lawsuits on top of everything else from individuals. So I mean, if they get out of the government's hair, they're going to have to deal with a lot of other individuals that are coming for blood because they're a centralized company and they're control of this. So and they're responsible for this. It's going to be hard for them to argue that they're not. [01:12:54] Speaker B: Yeah, the people I feel worse for, even the ones who called me stupid and came in, except for the sock puppets, you know, any of the fake ones, I don't care about. But the honest people who just bought into it didn't know what the hell they were doing here. I mean, it's. It's about as easy as anything to come into the crypto space, not know what you're doing and get blasted by a scam, you know, like, to get roped up in something. It's so easy. [01:13:25] Speaker C: I hate that. I hate that so much. Because, you know, there is something amazing happening right now with bitcoin. And it's. It's already hard as it is to convince people. Like, you're telling me, because it's. Because, you know, the. The first thing you would think is that it's a scam. Say, hey, somebody, computer program, and it's money. And so, like, go pay $20,000 for one of them. Like, you'd be like, no, I'm not giving that guy who made that program $20,000 so he can tell me I got one of his little digital points. Like, you know what I mean? That's like. You'd think that's. That's the most ridiculous thing ever. But then, you know, you get all these people that you trust telling you that it's real. And you don't. You know, you're not. You don't necessarily understand the difference between that and anything else. Like, why would. [01:14:11] Speaker B: Subtle. It's subtle. [01:14:12] Speaker C: Yeah, it's very subtle. And so then it's like, well, what else is there? Oh, there's this one. It's. Look at all these companies that are partnered with it. They're partnered with Western Union. This is so legit. You know, they're. They're. They're. They're doing things with banking. And. And unlike bitcoin, where it's using drug markets, like, this is for, like, official business. This is, like, real banking stuff. And so, like, this is the future right here. Look at this. And then it's literally a scam. The metrics are fake, the prices are fake, the community is fake. The. It's literally fake. The whole. I mean, like, God, I don't even think about it, like, how fake it really is. It's actually an actual scam. I know that people talk about. You know, they use the word scam on everything. And a lot of times, especially Bitcoin. Maximus, when we talk scam, we mean it in a way. Like, you're gonna lose money on this. [01:15:07] Speaker B: It's not necessarily not gonna work. All the claims are nonsense. Maybe they're honest in the fact that they don't know what they're doing, but some projects out there are, in fact, just honestly making bad decisions and aren't going to survive. [01:15:23] Speaker C: And like, like a bad startup, like, a startup, you know, like, startups are rough and. Or even. Or like a restaurant. Most restaurants fail. They don't want to fail. It's just hard to be a restaurant, you know, but. But with Ripple, and then maybe they, like, maybe it's become so normal in this space. Like, you know, the idea is, like, take people's money, so maybe they don't realize it, but, like, you're creating fake metrics, you're creating fake prices on the market. You're creating fake pr, you're creating fake companies. [01:15:56] Speaker B: They're paying people to look like they use it. Like, they just pay everybody to make their XRP look like something. [01:16:04] Speaker C: Literally selling those people something that you don't want that you made out of thin air, that does nothing. And you tell them it does a bunch of that it doesn't even do. Like, they can. It's. This is a huge scam. And so when they say, like, oh, this is an attack on us crypto community, this is an attack on crypto, we need to stand up against these evil regulators who are trying to hamper innovation. Like, no, this is what's hampering innovation. This is what's hampering the industry are these companies that are literally scams pretending like it's. There's something there that you could call innovation. There's nothing there that you can call. That you should legitimately call. Like, you really have to dig and give a lot of benefit of the doubt to even give them an inch of what you could call innovation that we desire in America. Yeah. And make an example of this. [01:17:08] Speaker B: Well, I got a question then for both of y'all, is, do y'all think this is going to be shut down? Like, do y'all think, like, what was the other one that got hit by the sec and they just, like, ended up. [01:17:20] Speaker C: There's a bunch. There's a bunch. But if you're thinking probably kick is probably the one that's on your radar. [01:17:25] Speaker B: There was one. There was one that just paid like, eos. Is it Eos? Eos got here and they just paid like a hundred million dollars or something. And they just kept. [01:17:33] Speaker C: No, not even 100 million. They paid like, not even 20 million. I think maybe 20. Oh my God. But, but the difference is though, a big, a lot of differences. One is that block one is actually very separate from eos. They actually were very intentional about like. So what they did was they did the ico, which was found to have been an illegal securities offering. And that's what they had to pay the fam for fine for. But that ICO is over. And then what they, what you got for that ICO is they develop a software and then they gave the software to the community and the community, it was up to the community to deploy it or not. And of course they did because they bought tokens on that network and they wanted to be able to sell those tokens. But, you know, the, the sale was over. But the thing about XRP is it's, it's, it's a perpetual ico. The sale isn't done. They're still doing the ico, they're still distributing the tokens they made out of thin air. Yeah, yeah. So it's a big, it's, it's different in that sense. But also they are directly. Even though they try to like make their excuse like I, somebody gave it to me. But like, I don't think that's really, like, that's like, that's like an excuse that like a three year old would make off the top of his head that you would know is a three year old excuse. Nobody gave you all that stuff for free. So that you like, that was you guys giving it to yourself as a, as like one of those like armchair legal premises that you just make up, you know, when you're the wealth. Technically we could say somebody gave it to us. That'll protect us from the law. Yeah, like. [01:19:17] Speaker B: Well, we could just audit. We could just audit the beginning of the chain. Right? Or the ledger. It was just. Oh, oh, wait, those blocks are gone, those ledgers. [01:19:28] Speaker C: I mean, like, nobody's gonna care. This is back when like 100 people knew what crypto was. [01:19:32] Speaker B: We accidentally deleted it. But it's okay, trust us. [01:19:35] Speaker C: And they're like the smartest guys in the small little room that they're in. So nobody cares. [01:19:43] Speaker B: What do you think, Max? Do you think this thing's gonna be around? Do you think that SEC is going to shut it down? Are they just going to get a slap on the wrist? I mean, Garlinghouse just. Garlinghouse alone apparently pulled in somewhere around $150 million from the XRP that he was just given and he just sold it, he just dumped it. And I mean, I don't Know, I. [01:20:08] Speaker D: Mean it's, it's really hot. This is definitely not like my area of expertise, but I would say that it's, it's going to be probably worse than. It seems like this is a much bigger deal than the Block 1 settlement. It seems like they are going for the jugular. But again, like, I don't, you know, like I, I don't think that the XRP ledger can be shut down. I mean Ripple can be shut down. People would still be able to transact on the ledger even if Ripple like disappeared. But then that all the, you know, all the innovation, quote unquote, all of like the excitement around XRP adoption was coming from Ripple products. Right. There are, there are other companies and stuff building on top of xrp. [01:20:56] Speaker C: But marketing, it's from the millions in marketing. Go on. [01:21:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:21:02] Speaker D: And a lot of these companies are, are being funded by Ripple. You know, I think Coil is one of them. They're funded by Ripple. You know, there's another San Francisco based company that I think there's, that Stefan Thomas was, was involved with. He's a, he's a Ripple employee. So like even a lot of the projects happening on Ripple are funded by Ripple. So it's hard to say what's going to happen. [01:21:32] Speaker B: It seems like one of the only ones that wasn't funded by Ripple got shut down because it was using it too much. [01:21:38] Speaker D: Yeah, seriously. But one thing that I wanted to mention is that Ripple had other products. They had one called X Current, which was, I think it was a type of messaging systems for banks to use. Kind of similar to Swift years ago, bank partnership after bank partnership after bank partnership. But all these banks were using X Current and not xrp. And so there may have been some merit to these partnerships because I remember banks coming out saying like, yeah, like this kicks the hell out of Swift. Like this is, this is great. And then I remember, you know, Garlinghouse and people at Ripple saying, yeah, like this is our strategy. Like we're going to get them on X Current on these other software projects or products and then we're going to switch them over to XRP and they're going to love it. It's going to save them money and like all this stuff. And so that's kind of like where things left off. And I expected this lawsuit to be pretty long and drawn out. And what that means for like odl, which was their XRP product, is that it's probably going to be shelved if there's a big suit going on surrounding xrp. I don't see them moving this product forward. And if, if we're talking a year or two, like, I mean, that's it. You can't, you know, you've lost the race at that point. And, you know, there was some evidence that that ODL was seeing adoption. And like, Even some of XRP's harshest critics, like Ryan Selkis, you know, came out on Twitter recently and said like, yeah, like, their, their XRP product was actually starting to see some like, real, like organic traction. Maybe Ripple was, was bribing all the exchanges to use it or whatever. Like, it was happening. Like it was starting to be used for intended purposes, especially between the United States and Mexico. And like, I'm pretty sure that all has to stop now because, because of this suit. And so, you know, that was XRP's flagship product. And it's, you know, it's, it's all, you know, I think it's, it's all gotta come grinding to a halt now until there's some type of regulatory clarity. [01:24:07] Speaker B: That was like, interesting thing, the tiny thread that was. That had it holding it all together pretty much. [01:24:16] Speaker D: And that Ripple also came out and recently and said, you know, the US Is way too hostile to us and we might just move our headquarters to Japan or like Singapore or somewhere overseas. So that's another possible outcome I could see here. Like, if, you know, Frujo makes it through all of this, they might just pack up and just leave the US. [01:24:40] Speaker C: And some people think they're going to get jail time and particularly because of, well, everything. All the fraud, essentially fraud that they've done, plus the statements like that, you know, like the guy who, who hypothetically filled a museum up with stolen works right after they were stolen and then tried to sell them all, that guy tells the feds, hey, you guys are being too hard on me, threatening me out of thin air. So I'm just gonna leave the country. See ya. Like, yeah, okay, good luck out on the plane. Like, these guys are being charged with some serious stuff. I mean, so it's sec. So it's not criminal, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some criminal complaints come behind some of this. And I think there needs to be. Because I think what's happening needs to be like, this is, this is a, this is a type of serious fraud that is ruining other companies from being able to like, get, you know, when you have the number three coin, which is literally just a big old scam and everything is about. It is fake. Like, that's not very Good for any kind of future that's going to use this kind of software. Not Ripple software, but blockchain ish software. Like if you want that to become a legit industry one day or like, like, you know, synonymous with normal Internet. Like, got to get rid of the real scams. And Ripple is number three big scam right there on the list. Like you gotta get these guys. [01:26:20] Speaker B: Yeah, that's one of the, that's one of the craziest things about, about the whole mess to me is that Ripple is literally number three. Like that they are one of the biggest in the whole space and that they could, that it could be so blatant about kind of the fraud in so many ways. And another really fascinating thing about the whole mess is that it does such a good job of showing just how complicated the relationship of centralization versus decentralization is. Is that like, it's just not easy to pinpoint one specific reason why Ripple is massively centralized and Bitcoin is not. It's such a multifaceted thing. But like, Max, like you were saying is that they are literally like for many of the companies, many of the external companies that appear to be using or building projects on Ripple or X Rapid or X Current, whatever it is, they are, they're being funded by Ripple. Like it's like so, you know, it all funnels back to whether or not Ripple is doing anything. So if you pull that company out from like, and everybody's investing in it on the future viability of their products, even the ones that have nothing to do, like, you know, indication that this is in fact a security, or at least people think it is, you know, like it's some equity in the Ripple company is that people are using X Current, which has absolutely nothing to do with Ripple or XRP the token, but that this is somehow going to give value to xrp, the token, because they're related, because they're, you know, the same company. They're, they are both Ripple. And if you pull that out, like that is the thread that's the third party, that's the trusted source of all the funding, of all the future value of why anybody even cares about this thing. And you know, it just, the whole thing basically crumbles from there. [01:28:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:28:40] Speaker D: You know, one thing Brad Garlinghouse, you know, has said is that, you know, this is the PayPal model. This is how PayPal bootstrapped its network was through partnerships and funding other companies to use their network. And yeah, that's totally true, but the whole token aspect wasn't part of that strategy. And so they're kind of just glossing over it like, oh yeah, well we're building this thriving ecosystem on the back of, of this token that now might be a security. It's just kind of like a big mess. I think it's a somewhat valid strategy to build out your ecosystem by funding partners. And if people want to build on your network, getting them some financing or whatever. But if you do it through a pre mined token, like, well, it's not really the same thing. [01:29:44] Speaker B: Yeah, they're not putting anything at stake. Like they're, they're not exactly like, you know, PayPal is investing in a future that, that's their skin in the game is they're putting actual money on the line that they had to earn to actually build out their investment and that they proved that they've got a product on the other end of it that they think is going to give them a return in actual real money. But when you print 100 billion tokens out of thin air, sell it to a whole bunch of people and then you're paying people to use it in the token that you printed for free, you don't have to do anything. You already profited, you already won the investment game because you just sold something that's worth nothing and cost you nothing to people for tons of money. That's it. [01:30:28] Speaker D: It's like a, you know, it's like a big collusion. Right. Like the whole thing with MoneyGram and, and like the press releases that came with that and it's like now money. Graham has like an interest in XRP's price going up and they're coming out and saying oh yeah, like we're partnering with Ripple and we are totally going to use XRP in our system for cross border payments. I mean it's actually happened and like it's, it's just kind of shocking, you know, it's, it's shocking. And I don't think that Money Graham is using xrp, you know, in their, in their payment flows right now. Like they ran a few tests but it's not like any meaningful part of their system. And yeah, I, I mean, I don't know. It's. What a mess. [01:31:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's gonna, God, it's gonna hurt for those bag holders. What is it? [01:31:23] Speaker D: What? [01:31:23] Speaker B: I think it was bitstamp. I think, yeah. Just announced they're delisting it. That was actually another thing in the filing is that they, they have evidence of at least 10, but they have no idea obviously it could be all of them. It could be any number, but at least 10 exchanges and like digital, digital asset trading platforms were paid large lump sums to, to list ripple to make it look important. I mean, this is obvious, this is something that every coin did. In fact, I read there's a really great piece about scams in the space and a guy who worked in quote unquote crypto for like a couple of years and then left because of just how awful it was. And there's somebody else, God, I can't remember who wrote it, but he's talking about how easy it was to like just pay exchanges. Like everything paid in exchange to list everything paid. All the crypto and like ICO rating websites, like every single one of them. In fact, like the website would come back with a response when somebody was like, can you review my new token? Or whatever. They would literally come back and be like, it's this price to give us a decent, to give us like a two star or three star review. It's this price for a force, like they would literally sell them a package of what the review was. And in this example, this guy was like testing it out. And so he just wrote a brilliant review. He just, he just wrote a review for this token that he wanted listed and made up. And he just wrote his own review, start to finish and said, I want five stars and here's the money for it. And they posted it. It's like front page of this, one of the biggest like rating websites. I can't remember the names of it, I didn't follow it anymore. Like boom, right there at the top. And it was his review word for word with somebody else's name under it and a five star rating. And this is the ico. This is the token you need to be looking out for in the next couple of weeks. And that, you know, this is, this is, this has been the space for a long time, long time. And I guess that's the great thing about bear markets is all that kind of falls away. But I feel like this is going to continue to be a problem and there will be XRP copycats that hopefully don't do the damage that XRP has. But holy crap, people are going to be wrecked. Now that bitstamp has kind of got the ball rolling. I mean, I think it was an inevitable. Everybody's going to delist it. I mean, if they all just got paid to list it and now, like now, why now they're just running the risk of getting smashed by the sec. I think XRP could be one of the first ones that truly dies, like it just turns off. I mean, maybe there will be bag holders that, you know, keep the network alive and keep running some nodes, but it definitely is a candidate for one that was centralized enough and dependent enough on a single company that it just, when the company goes, it just doesn't survive. But I guess it depends on what they do to Ripple. You know, if they get a slap on the wrist, then nothing. [01:34:54] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, if they get a slap on their wrist, then, you know, could be good for the token price. Yeah. [01:35:02] Speaker B: God, yeah. [01:35:04] Speaker D: I remember when Coinbase was still Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin, they came out and said, you know, Ripple had approached them to list XRP and offered them like an exorbitant amount and that they, you know, politely declined or whatever. And I think it was because they still weren't sure if it was a security or not or if they could, you know, get caught up and legal trouble if they did list xrp. But at some point along the way they gained the confidence to list these things. And I don't see the SEC going after US based exchanges for listing xrp. But I still wouldn't be surprised if we see delisting. [01:35:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I mean, you know, bit stamp leading the way. I think it's January 8th or something. They said that it'll be gone, so it'll be the beginning of 2021. But I think that will probably cascade. You're probably right that the SEC won't go after them, but I think that will probably be because they will if they continue to do it. And Ripple is quote, unquote, a security, like listed a security, they would be openly breaking the law. So I feel like they're in a situation where they don't have to go after anybody because up to now there's been no clear evidence that, you know, Coinbase is breaking the law by having XRP on it. But as soon as it is listed as a security and the fact that now that is up in the air, they will be. So they're like, well, you know, let's just, let's just let this work itself out. [01:36:59] Speaker D: Yeah, I think so. Some, some exchanges are like registered broker dealers and like can our license to sell securities. [01:37:07] Speaker B: Okay. [01:37:07] Speaker D: But other, other exchanges aren't. So that would be the like determining factor there. [01:37:14] Speaker B: Gotcha. [01:37:15] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's different, you know, like, just because you are like a registered broker dealer and you can like sell securities, doesn't mean that you can sell unregistered securities. Or like illegitimate securities. So I'm not, you know, I'm not really sure how that works. But like, you know, if I were allowed to list securities on my exchange, I'm not sure that I would be listing unregistered securities, you know, that has illegitimate offerings and whatnot. [01:37:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I gotta tell you, have you all seen. There's one piece of good news about Ripple, and I'm not sure if y'all saw it, but somebody. I think it was a tick tock. It was either that or it was Instagram, I do not remember. But there is. There is a woman who apparently the alignment of Jupiter right now in the short term, it's going to be really bad for the Ripple price. But if you look in at the long term, if you go out like the next year to two years and further, the alignment of the planets really look good for a healthy adoption of Ripple. [01:38:31] Speaker C: Well, I heard that Ripple and Apple and I heard this on TikTok also. Ripple and Apple are going to work together and make something called Raffle. Raffle is going to be the future. And you need to invest in this so that you can have true generational wealth. That's what I'm getting on my TikTok. [01:39:00] Speaker B: Yeah, the. Basically, if you buy Ripple now, you're gonna get airdropped a bunch of Rapple and. And Rapple's gonna be bigger than Apple and Ripple together. It's major news. [01:39:14] Speaker C: And I wish that I was joking. By the way, this is a real TikTok video. You should look up Raffle Girl because it's hilarious and sad. [01:39:24] Speaker B: How long is it? I'll play them both. I'll play them both. [01:39:27] Speaker C: They're both. [01:39:29] Speaker B: We'll just tack them onto the end of this. [01:39:31] Speaker C: Okay. It's. It's sad. I gotta warn you guys. It's sad. [01:39:37] Speaker D: Yeah. I couldn't tell if that was like a joke or not. It was something that was so far out there that I was like, this has to be a joke. Like, there's no way that this is serious. But like, you never know. [01:39:48] Speaker C: The video was serious, though. Like, they're not joking. Like, I'm joking. But the person. But the person who made this video is telling their followers to buy this thing called Ripple because of Raffle and talking about generational wealth. [01:40:06] Speaker B: Oh, man, you can't. You know, you can lead a horse to water. [01:40:14] Speaker C: No, I love that Max hasn't seen this because. Yeah, it's. You're gonna. [01:40:19] Speaker B: Yeah, you're gonna love it. We'll show it to you in Just a minute. But I think we've. I think we've basically covered it. I'm sure there is about another two hours of stuff that we could dig into. But let's. Let's go ahead and close out the Ripple episode here. It has. Maybe this will be one to revisit after, you know, some hammers get hit and we see what actually comes out of the dust or comes out of this when all the dust settles. But it's looking rough for Ripple Night right now. What do you guys got? [01:41:00] Speaker D: Last words. [01:41:00] Speaker B: Let's go with a secret ninja and then we'll hit you, Max. [01:41:06] Speaker C: Oh, man. Pretty much. I think it's. I think I did a good job making my speaking my mind on it. It's. It's the pinnacle of. [01:41:16] Speaker B: Tell us how you really feel. Tell us how you really feel. [01:41:18] Speaker C: The pinnacle of what is wrong. Ripple. You could use Ripple to illustrate what is wrong with shitcoins generally, in almost every sense. They've got all the sock puppets, all the fake metrics, all the market manipulation, all of the massive amount of PR that is specifically designed to lure naive investors into giving them money for no other reason than. Than, you know, for them to dump their token. They've got the biggest pre. Mine in crypto. They've got. I mean, it's. It is. They are the. No. And I'm so glad. And I hope that the SEC knows what they have in their hand here and that it isn't just, you know, like, this is. This needs to be. If you want to take. If you want to be serious about enforcing any kind of anything against crypto scams, like, if stuff like Ripple is allowed to happen without consequence. [01:42:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:42:20] Speaker C: Then, you know, then. Then it's. Then. Then nothing matters. [01:42:26] Speaker B: Yeah. It's all for game, basically. [01:42:28] Speaker C: Yeah. So we'll see. [01:42:33] Speaker B: All right, what you got, Max, what are you. What are your final thoughts? What's your overall in a nutshell for Ripple and its future? [01:42:42] Speaker D: I'm shocked that it took. I'm shocked that, you know, that it took so long for this to happen. I mean, like, you know, just like Brad said on CNBC a few days ago, like, the SEC has been watching this happen for eight years and, like, just now decided to come down with charges. So that part is surprising to me. I think it is interesting that one of the early founders was Jed McCaleb, who is the guy who started Mount Gox, who is now affiliated with the Stellar project. And, you know, one of the points in time where, like, it really struck me that something here is seriously not right. Was when the XRP token price was at its peak. Chris Larson was worth like $50 billion and was like top five richest people in the world at the time. And that was like, that was all based on speculation that the XRP ledger and that Ripple would be some, the future of finance. So like, you know, there's, there's, I think there's pretty clear signs that like something wasn't right with, with all of this. And you know, I don't, I don't think that Brad Garlinghouse and the Ripple execs like see themselves as, as scammers or, or like, you know, I like to think that they are well intentioned and just really, really misguided. Like, I don't think they're like overtly trying to scam people, but I just think that they are horribly, horribly misguided. So we'll see what happens. You know, this suit has implications for the entire crypto space. Right? You know, like, as much as we'd all love to see Ripple go down, you know, there's still gonna be like implications in the future that this has for innovation in the United States and whatnot. So I don't know, we'll see what happens. [01:44:51] Speaker C: I think the opposite of you right there. But. [01:44:55] Speaker B: You mean. [01:44:57] Speaker C: Sure, but I think positive implications. I think that if you get rid of the outright scams, then you can start having, you know, you're sucking all the auction out of the room when you pull all the investors into nothing. Like if you have legitimate be like if Silicon Valley, the biggest company literally made vaporware and took all the investment from everyone else. [01:45:21] Speaker B: Like I would, I would say that I would rather it die on its own accord. You know, if Ripple was really bleeding money that bad, the company and it was having to pay people to, I mean, yeah, maybe it takes longer but, and you know, maybe this is just my libertarian anarchist coming out, but I would rather it not be the SEC in, in all honesty that came down and tried to figure out how to define something that's really hard to define and then just, you know, lays out this broad swath of like we're going to attack all of this stuff. Now. I don't feel bad for Ripple at all. Like if the SEC is coming after them, it's like, well, okay, they, if there is anybody that had it coming, Ripple is it. But I would rather them have just gone under because they ran out of XRP to sell and you know, they dumped the price into the floor and then the investors learned, you know, what they could from this thing and didn't get the excuse of saying, oh, the SEC is what did it. You know, they didn't get this out that, oh, it's the big evil government has come in and kept this brilliant innovation from happening. It's like, no, it died of its own freaking accord. So that would have been my preferable path to just naturally let it play itself out. Even though I see, I don't know which one would have hurt more people. I still kind of think the natural way is just the better way, but who knows? But at the end of the day, it's, it's a scam. And like, Max, like what you said, you know, there is some truth to that that they could, they, maybe they're not in a, in a sense knowingly scamming. Like I, I could believe that. Like, there's the, There's a great quote. Never attribute to malice. What is properly explained by ignorance is that if you just don't have any principles and you don't have any business ethics whatsoever, XRP seems like a great deal, like for them, for all the incentives align and if they don't really care about being honest, is it a scam if they actually think that they're doing what PayPal does now? It is a scam in practice, but maybe they're just stupid. Maybe they're just stupid. They have no principles and they have no ethics. And therefore, you know, they ended up doing the one method that just robbed millions of people of beaucoups of money to fund what they thought was going to be a useful operation that just turned out to not be. And, you know, if you can't recognize that, that's a terrible way to go about it. Maybe you can't recognize that your product is worth crap. [01:48:28] Speaker D: Yeah, I think that's, I think that's well said. You know, in their heads, they were building a big vibrant ecosystem where XRP would be, you know, a huge deal and then the, the ends justify the means or whatever. But doesn't seem to be working out too well. [01:48:45] Speaker B: Does not. Does not indeed. Well, I gotta say thank you all for this. It's been a long time coming. Big gap on this one for shitcoin Insider number four And Max, it was awesome to be able to have. You're a good resource in this space. I don't want to tell anybody who you are, but it's great to have somebody who I know knows what they're talking about and has been involved in this for a while. So thank you for coming on. Shitcoin Insider. And of course to my co host for coming back and taking a break from his undercover operations to talk with us all about Ripple it has. [01:49:28] Speaker D: Thanks for having me. [01:49:29] Speaker B: Time. Yes, yes indeed. Thanks guys. [01:49:33] Speaker C: See ya. [01:49:34] Speaker E: To my fellow members of Gen Z. I am tired of old people. This is how we're gonna get rich and do whatever we want. It's common knowledge at this point that the richest people in the world don't have their money from a 9 to 5. They have investments and we can't all afford to buy a house right now or invest in Fortune 500 stock. So here's what you got to do. Download an app that you can use to buy cryptocurrency. I use the Crypto app. It's literally called crypto.com but it's an app. Anybody can do this and then buy as much XRP or Ripple as you can afford. Every single paycheck. We have to invest in Ripple because for multiple reasons. One, they just made a deal with Apple to form something called Rapple. This is a huge deal because Apple runs the world pretty much at this point. Secondly, they have deals with major banks all throughout the world. They're the first cryptocurrency to undergo the process of being regulated by the government. Meaning that when crypto is the main currency it's going to be Ripple and right now it's only 25 cents a share. Investio. [01:50:33] Speaker F: If you are a long term investor who believes in the use case of XRP Ripple, this is probably one of the best times ever to buy in. Not only due to the common sense of it being a dip, but also due to the astrology I see coming up in the long term because 2023 to 2025 is when I see it really shining. And I'm using the chart of their stable release date on May 15, 2018. If anyone has a better recommendation for a time that would make more sense, a date and time for XRP ripple, let me know. But this chart has worked really well with the tracking that I've done. So Jupiter and Saturn are meeting right on top of their south node. An indication of a new standard, definitive new beginning on top of an indicator of decrease. And whenever the south node is activated like this, it represents letting go like a loss. It's like substantial low point for the foreseeable future obviously, but May into July of next year and then for most of all of 2022, Jupiter is in Pisces, which helps them out a lot. But then 2023-5 when Uranus crosses as their sun and moon is when I think things could really skyrocket and definitely is volatile, but is very like sudden increase oriented.