Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Imagine waking up in a world where every piece of information you encounter is carefully filtered by faceless algorithms. Your online interactions are curated not by your preferences, but by the agendas of corporations and governments. You can only speak within the walls of platforms that commodify your every word, every click. This isn't a dystopian novel. It's the current reality of the Internet.
[00:00:32] The best in Bitcoin made Audible I am Guy Swan and this is Bitcoin Audible.
[00:00:55] What is up guys? Welcome back to Bitcoin Audible. I am Guy Swan, the guy who has read more about Bitcoin than anybody else you know. This show is brought to you by the Fold app and the Fold debit card and the gift cards and the 8,000 ways to get SATs back on everything. I gotta tell you I. I did this like three years ago now. Then I switched everything over to fold and fold is literally my main banking and I cannot tell you like I have the amount of sats that I have stacked just because of Fold is incredible. And I do not know of an easy. The way the reason I shield this is because I don't know of an easier way to just switch. Switch your banking over to the Fold debit card away from some crap fiat bank direct deposit to fold and just use it. Everything that you do you will get sats back and anytime that you can use a gift card you will get even more sats back. I'm telling you that makes a difference. Anyway check it out, 20,000 sats for free if you want to use my link. And then also check out the BitKit wallet. There are very few non custodial like self custodial wallets out there that have on chain and lightning in like a really really easy user interface and that is bitget. If you have not tried it out yet it is a fantastic, really user friendly wallet and I will have my ID down in the show notes the description so that you can add me as a contact if you want to try it out.
[00:02:28] All right, so today actually this is actually relevant to BitKit. In fact I'm not sure because Bit Kit I believe used to be built on the hole punch stack which is what key and everything is being built on. And I think they have switched. I mean I could be wrong, I could be wrong. Maybe they didn't really change much with Bitget but this is something that's really really cool is it is essentially peer to peer that you're just the peer that you're connecting to is their server. But then even in the widgets. So there's widgets in the app and this isn't about BitKit, but we'll get there. There are widgets in the BitKit app that let you actually connect. Like I could host a widget if I wanted to. And so if I wanted to like feed you some sort of data or like a newsletter, news items or something like that, I could literally do that in BitKit and just connect to like I could host it myself and then you would connect to it peer to peer. It's really, really cool. But this is actually the same company, so Synonym has built BitKit and then they have also. So John Carvalho, if you know him, Bitcoin error log and their whole crew has been building really, really cool stuff from a peer to peer perspective, from a censorship resistant perspective. And they announced a Pub Key at Lugano at the Plan B forum conference and this was really cool. And I've been wanting to deep dive into this. I actually got a shirt, I got a Pub Key shirt actually, which I really like. But this is such a cool system and design in the whole space for censorship resistant social media and creating essentially a new web. And so I wanted to break down kind of the reference and introduction to Pub Key on the show. And this was a. This is specifically, I think this is John Carvalho. Yeah, yeah. John Carvalho published this piece basically with the thesis why they're building it, how they built it differently, what the strengths and weaknesses are of basically a rundown of all essentially the attempts to fix the web. So including nostr, hole punch, scuttlebutt, all of these different things and then the framework for Pub Key and what they have coming in the future. So if any of that sounds interesting to you, you gotta listen to this one. And with that, let's get into today's article and it's titled Pub Key the Next Web by John Carvalho.
[00:05:00] Imagine waking up in a world where every piece of information you encounter is carefully filtered by faceless algorithms. Your online interactions are curated not by your preferences, but by the agendas of corporations and governments. You can only speak within the walls of platforms that commodify your every word and, and every click. This isn't a dystopian novel. It's the current reality of the Internet.
[00:05:33] Now imagine a different world. A world where you hold the keys to your digital kingdom. A place where your identity, content and interactions are entirely under your control.
[00:05:46] This is the world pubkey aims to create and it starts today.
[00:05:52] Pubkey is designed to redefine the web by creating a self sovereign system where users have full control over their data and interactions. This document is the master reference for all things pubkey, encompassing the scientific, economic and network and system design aspects of the project. PubKey uses foundational technologies like public key addressable resource records or pcar mainline distributed hash table or DHT home servers and indexers to create a decentralized user owned Internet.
[00:06:31] The State of the Web the current web is dominated by centralized control leading to issues such as censorship, algorithmic manipulation and lack of user privacy. Big tech algorithms are described as poisoned algorithms that prioritize corporate and state interests while compromising user control.
[00:06:54] Platforms also lock users into walled gardens, limiting freedom and commodifying data.
[00:07:01] The vision of PubKey PubKey represents a new paradigm for the web, one where you are the algorithm. Individuals have full control over their data, identity and social interactions. With Breaking free from big tech platforms, your public key is your self sovereign domain name signifying ownership over your digital presence.
[00:07:28] A Captured Web pubkey addresses significant shortcomings in the current web infrastructure by focusing on user empowerment, privacy and resilience.
[00:07:41] Poisoned Algorithms Imagine algorithms that decide what you see. Driven by corporate profits and government interests, Big tech algorithms encourage toxic engagement, prioritize clickbait over truth, and limit user control. Users are manipulated by broken algorithms that are breaking us instead of connecting and empowering us.
[00:08:06] Censorship platforms and governments dictate what is allowed online, compromising free speech. The net is comprised by entities that control what can be said. Imagine being silenced just because your opinion doesn't align with what's acceptable to the gatekeepers. Pub Key aims to change this narrative by giving the voice back to the user.
[00:08:30] Walled Gardens the dominance of big tech locks users into closed ecosystems, limiting freedom and commodifying data. This creates a scenario akin to digital serfdom where users have no ownership of their digital identity or content. You are stuck in a system where your data is their asset and you are just a tenant in their walled garden. Pubkey breaks down these walls, giving you complete ownership let's fix the Web Attempts so far several initiatives have attempted to fix these problems, each making some progress but with trade offs. Here is a quick overview of the decentralized web ecosystem today. Activity Pub Threads and Mastodon Key Features Federated Servers Open source platform provides community control with federated servers allowing more user driven moderation.
[00:09:35] Centralized moderation still exists at the server level, limiting portability of identity and data. Users remain at the mercy of server admins and siloed platforms.
[00:09:47] Protocol Bluesky Decentralized Identity or dids portability, PDSS and elaborate moderation options. Strengths Decentralized identity and the potential for user control and funded depends on a centralized PLC directory, making it vulnerable to failure. Biased towards moderation and social networking. DIDs are hosted either on the servers or on DNS. Vulnerable to censorship Hole punch platform for building peer to peer applications without centralized infrastructure Routing over hyperswarm DHT with torrent like data replication Direct efficient peer to peer communication Secure real time data synchronization through an append only log structure Ideal for distributed applications and popular data More complex to implement than most protocol options Append log structures bring risk of forks and more complex identity and room management. Self hosting requirements bring security and privacy considerations.
[00:11:03] Matrix Element and Fluffy Cat Decentralized communication End to end encryption intended as a replacement for traditional chat systems Offers decentralized real time communication with strong privacy and encryption.
[00:11:25] Federation still relies on larger servers with centralized control aspects and the complex infrastructure can be challenging for users to run their own servers.
[00:11:35] Nostr, Primal and Yakehon Key features Key based identity Lightweight and easy to get started simple provides portability and censorship resistance via basic key based identity limitations Scalability and incentive challenges that result in only a few centralized relays. Lacks key delegation and identity based routing inviting censorship and data loss. Peer Gauss Key features End to end encryption Privacy focused familiar cloud file storage capabilities Excellent privacy features including first class encryption and familiar cloud storage experiences like streaming limitations Centralized PKI this will be addressed with IPNS or pkar the File system API complicates cursor pagination compared to ordered key value stores. Pubkey Core pubkey App Key features Decentralized identity management Data routing and hosting using pcar, Mainline, DHT and home servers Complete user control over data and identity resilient to censorship Portable across platforms and ensures credible exit Uses a well established DHT for scalability and decentralized discovery.
[00:13:01] Users must manage and secure keys run or select a home server, adding complexity to onboarding. Managing master keys and revocable sessions may require learning a new ui.
[00:13:13] Secure scuttlebutt miniverse Key features Decentralized social network protocol emphasizing privacy and offline first capabilities Strengths Fully decentralized offline first design that allows data replication and privacy Focuses on secure private communication.
[00:13:34] Scalability challenges as the entire social feed is replicated by all users Lacks easy onboarding and the user experience is not intuitive for non technical users.
[00:13:46] Simplex Simplex Chat Key features Secure messaging platform focusing on privacy without metadata collection Strong emphasis on privacy by eliminating metadata collection peer to peer communication without requiring centralized servers or exposing IP addresses.
[00:14:06] Limited scalability for large social networking use cases mostly focused on private messaging lacking broader support for social graph or content publication.
[00:14:17] Web5 key features combines Bitcoin and identity technologies to create a self sovereign Internet using decentralized identifiers or dids and decentralized web nodes.
[00:14:31] Strengths Emphasizing user sovereignty with portable identity and data built on Bitcoin for a secure open ecosystem Supports Pkar via diddht method Weaknesses Bitcoin reliance is an unnecessary complexity complex specifications Bias toward formal digital ID and altcoin use cases Unlock the web with PubKey PubKey is a key oriented user controlled web where individuals own their data, identity and content breaking free from big tech platforms. It's not just another app or platform, it's a paradigm shift, a new kind of web that puts you at the center. You are no longer a passive participant, you you are the algorithm PubKey is made of two major PubKey Core, the decentralized protocol infrastructure that powers identity management, data routing and hosting. PubKey app a flagship web application for interfacing with and publishing to the PubKey web, enabling personalized content feeds, social tagging and web of trust based curation.
[00:15:47] Pubkey Core pubkey Core comprises the foundational protocols and technologies that power the decentralized Pub Key ecosystem. PCAR the Public Key Addressable Resource Records PCAR enables users to associate content identities and resources with cryptographic keys, ensuring verifiable ownership. PICAR handles key revocation through a distributed update mechanism where changes are signed and propagated via mainline dht. Master keys are kept in cold storage and access is delegated through revocable home server sessions, minimizing exposure and maximizing security.
[00:16:35] Your public key is your self sovereign domain name, representing your ownership of identity, data and content in a censorship resistant manner. Imagine having an online identity that is entirely yours, one that no platform can take away.
[00:16:54] Mainline DHT Integration Pub Key uses mainline DHT as its backbone for distributing and locating user data. This technology, which powers the BitTorrent network, enables decentralized data discovery, scalability and fault tolerance, including ensuring that pubkeys network remains resilient and efficient under any conditions. Decentralized peer discovery ensures that the network scales seamlessly, supporting millions of nodes globally.
[00:17:26] HTTP friendly URLs can be normal HTTPs URLs. Keys are top level domains, not dids. Files and blobs of content can be stored without complexities. JSON, etc. Signed DNS records for self sovereign domains PubKey leverages signed DNS records to create self sovereign domain names linked directly to user Public Keys Unlike traditional DNS systems, PubKey eliminates reliance on certificate authorities, mitigating risks such as cache poisoning and registrar hacking.
[00:18:04] Home Servers Home servers are web servers that store and serve user data based on the rules set by the user. Anyone can host a home server and there is no network effect moat favoring a particular provider. This guarantees users a credible exit. By providing full portability of identity and data, users can seamlessly migrate their data, social graph and identity to a new home server if needed, ensuring resilience and availability. If one server goes offline or bans you, your digital life doesn't miss a beat.
[00:18:46] Your Portal to the pubkey Web pubkey app provides the interface through which users interact with the PubKey ecosystem, manage content and curate their online experience.
[00:19:00] Progressive Web App the pubkey app is a browser based or locally installed tool that allows users to interact with the PubKey ecosystem. It offers publishing, social tagging and curation features letting users control every aspect of their web experience.
[00:19:19] You are the key Users represent themselves as public keys, removing the need for email or phone numbers and creating a self sovereign identity that is consistent across the entire network.
[00:19:33] Posts and post Types Users can publish content in various formats short notes, articles, images, videos or links. The tagging system allows for enhanced curation and discoverability.
[00:19:47] The Taggable Web Forget the black box algorithms of traditional platforms. With PubKey, users engage in social tagging, building a network based on their own values and preferences. Tags allow users to curate content and relationships effectively, making users the algorithm by deciding what content is relevant and how it is presented. Tagging Posts and users Tagging is central to the PUB key experience. Users can tag content or other users, enhancing discoverability and establishing trust within the network. You are the algorithm means that user created tags influence what content appears and how it is prioritized.
[00:20:34] Nexus indexers the PubKey app integrates with Nexus indexers to enhance the Semantic Social graph, improving data discovery and content curation. Users create and save custom content feeds, filtering content based on their preferences. The Nexus indexer acts like your personal librarian, crawling the Pub keyverse and querying the Semantic Social graph to help users find content connections and data relevant to their interests. Unlike centralized search engines, indexers can be run by anyone, democratizing the process of content discovery.
[00:21:13] Custom feeds and curation. Users have the ability to create and save custom feeds, building their own lens into the web, shaped by the people they trust and the content they value.
[00:21:27] Semantic Social Graph or SSG and Contextual web of trust the Semantic Social Graph the SSG lies at the core of pubkeys social infrastructure, allowing users to curate and manage their online interactions based on shared context and trust. Relationships Tags and Relationships Users categorize content, label relationships, and establish connections using cryptographically signed tags. Tags serve as filters that let users create custom perspectives, designing how they view the web. Users can establish weighted relationships that reflect trust and personal relevance, making Pub Key a semantic social graph driven by user intent.
[00:22:15] Contextual web of trust PubKey allows users to establish a contextual web of trust through tagging and direct interactions. Trust relationships are updated dynamically based on ongoing interactions and can be retracted as needed, ensuring that the trust graph remains current, meaningful and secure.
[00:22:35] Graph Dynamics and Social Incentives the SSG structure encourages engagement through social tagging, transforming content discovery into a collaborative experience. Users curate content that matters to them and establish their own networks of trust, putting the power of the algorithm directly into the hands of the community.
[00:22:59] How Pub Key Fixes the Web Poisoned algorithms you are the algorithm. Pubkea empowers users through social tagging and personalized feeds, effectively eliminating the control that big tech algorithms have over what content is presented. Censorship Cancel Cancel culture With Picar identities and decentralized home servers, censorship becomes ineffective. Users can maintain their data, contacts and followers even if a server tries to block or ban them. By commoditizing hosting services, PubKey ensures there is no financial or control incentive for hosts to censor users. If your home server bans you, you simply move to a new one, taking everything with you. This credible exit removes power from gatekeepers and puts it back into the hands of the users.
[00:24:00] Walled Gardens Unlock the Web pubkey enables true portability of identity, social graphs and content. Users are no longer locked into any single platform's ecosystem. With PubKey, your data, identity and social relationships are entirely yours. They move with you, not with the platform. It's time to unlock the web and reclaim your digital autonomy.
[00:24:31] Semantic Social Graph for Personalized Discovery pubkeys semantic Social graph revolutionizes the way we discover and interact with content online. By leveraging a decentralized web of contextually rich tags and user defined relationships, PubKey offers an experience that is genuinely tailored to individual interests and values. Users define how they interact with content and build a personalized content rich Internet that serves them.
[00:25:07] Get in here, loser. We're taking back the web.
[00:25:11] All right. And then he's got a couple of links here to Pubkey Core with the demos and the library. So pubkey.org and that's just Pubkey like P U B K Y Take out the e that's it pubkey and GitHub.com pubkey and then the telegram chat is pubkey core and pubkey core by the way is open source and available now. So that's what you build on and you can contribute to that. You can build user controlled applications with it.
[00:25:40] And this is also generic which is something like agnostic to the type of data. Which is one of the reasons why I think this project specifically is so interesting in the.
[00:25:51] Because the things that I have been most interested in are the hole punch. Obviously you've listened to me. You know I'm building a project on top of it Nostr and now pubkey has been the new thing that I think is. It's funny because it's. It's a bit of a middle ground between what is being built with hole punch and what is being built in Nostr and I think there's a lot of elements of like okay, what is it that Nostr is having trouble with and. And hasn't been built. Hasn't been built on top of Nostr yet that pubkey basically does out the gate and that's the semantic graph and. And we'll talk a little bit about what that means exactly. But then that. And the web of trust is integrating that fundamentally into how you move through content because right now that idea is there in Nostr but the only implementation of it, the only thing that I have seen in relation to the web of trust is purely how many people follow this other person. And I think it's coracle for the tool that I use or the client that I use that actually brings this up as a. As a specific kind of like. Like literally like a checkbox but it's a checkbox that this person is the real thing or has a high trust score based on my environment that I have specifically curated. But we'll get all. We'll get to all of that in just a second. And then PubKey app again no k e y just ky so PubKey p u b k y dot app which there's a sneak peek which there's not a ton on there but I think for just style and design and that's one one things that I've been most impressed about Synonym and everything they've been building because you've probably heard me talk about the big hit Wallet on the show before and or you saw me when I was. I shared out my. I'd actually gotten a bunch of.
[00:27:47] Early on I had gotten a bunch of people that are following following that's not. That's not the term in bitkit who have added me as a contact and I have added them, but in working something out and actually working with them during the beta, I kind of killed that. So that's why I. If you. If you actually are having me as a contact, you haven't seen anything is because I basically killed those keys. I exposed them on purpose during a thing to try something out and to test something with somebody in the dev group. Honestly, I can't even remember what. What the exact situation was now, but I. So I moved. I only had like 100 bucks in Bitcoin or something on it. It's like 150,000 sats. But I took it off already, so that key is empty and the keys burned. It's. It's of no use. So I have a new key and if you were following me and you haven't seen me or you can't do anything, that's why. So basically, unless it is after this episode that you have added me, if you have me and your contacts in the BitKit wallet, delete it because it's a burned key.
[00:28:52] Real quick. I want to thank Fold and the Fold app and their debit card for not only being a supporter of this show, but also because I got 168,000 in satisfaction rewards. 168,000 SATs, which is literally like 168 bucks right now in just the month of November. So in the context of Fold Premium, which just gets you more rewards and ensures. Even gives you some sats back on like a lot of bills and stuff, even on some ach. I think there's like some sort of a specific delineation as to whether or not they actually make a return on that that they can push to the users. Because this is all because they're. They're basically taking what they would earn as a card issuer in interchange fees and pushing it to you as. As sats. But fold premium is like 8 bucks. $8, like 33 cent a month, which is a coffee, literally a coffee with coconut milk. And it's $100 a year. And in the month of December, with just my normal business expenses, traveling a short flight to Florida and back for a day, which I got 7% back on flight and hotel with gift cards and then doing the majority of my shopping, almost all of my Christmas shopping with gift cards, I made 168,000 sats. This is the easiest way to get started, start stacking sats and to do so in a completely passive way, Fold has literally a plethora like 10 different ways in the app that you can just passively, automatically, and with a discount on normal fiat life, get sats constantly and stack them. In under two years, I have over $8100 in savings that is entirely from Rewards using Fold. I, low key, have a goal to actually stack an entire bitcoin entirely with Fold Rewards. I'm. I'm gonna. It's. It's a stretch, but I, I think I can do it. And, you know, if you want to help me out with that goal, you can give me 10,000 sats for signing up and you get 20,000 sats for free if you use my referral code, bitcoinautible.com fold let's get guy to a billion.
[00:31:12] No, excuse me. A billion. Good God. 100 million sats in rewards on fold. Come on, come on, we can do this together. Check them out. Link in the show notes.
[00:31:22] Okay, so there's a number of really great things I think about this.
[00:31:29] The way they've attacked this and BitKit started in the whole Hole Punch ecosystem and actually talked to John about this at.
[00:31:41] Where were we?
[00:31:44] I guess it was probably Bitcoin 2024 or Lugano. Was that Lugano? That was Lugano. That's where we were. Okay. Yeah. So we were in Switzerland and managed to bump into him and we chatted for about this. Yeah, that's right. Because that was when they announced it in Lugano at the Plan B forum. And we didn't get to talk for a really long time. But I was telling him about paradrive and stuff that we've been working on. And he was talking about, like, you know, how things had gone with using Hole Punch and what the limitations were and where they were actually focused on, like the audience and the people they were trying to build for and what problem they were trying to solve. And it seemed like he basically suggested that the Hole Punch ecosystem was far better geared because it was so complex to implement. And that is without a question. That is one thing that we have had a heck of a time trying to get working with PEAR Drive. But this was also the whole point of PEAR Drive is that we saw correctly, like just. Just as John saw, is just how complex it was to implement most of what was going on with the protocol because it's such a big stack of stuff. There's so many different hyper core Hyper drive, hyper Hyper B, autobase, just a whole bunch of things that are working in tandem. So our idea with PEAR Drive was make it so that people can build with it without Knowing what any of that stuff is and before.
[00:33:16] I mean, basically we're at the point where we can do this with Paradrive. We're just going to make a video with it and so people can build on top of it. But this is also. It seemed like what John, what everybody at Synonym seemed to realize is that that level of complexity was going to cause problems or, or at least tend to require a lot more building and a lot of probably a lot more frustration in getting certain things to work and what they were actually trying to accomplish. Whereas the whole hypercore and append only logs and stuff is probably more better geared to just kind of popular file replication, basically a more advanced BitTorrent. But then there was another limitation is that there is a new DHT for the pair ecosystem, for the hole punch ecosystem. So short simple idea of what the DHT is. So imagine like so your router, like at home when you're, when you have like a router and Internet and you're connecting to AT&T or you know, whatever your Internet provider is, routers hold big routing tables for much of the Internet. I don't think your home router actually has like the entire thing. I think it's mostly just offloaded to larger servers. But nonetheless it is literally routing data like lightning. Lightning is a great example, is your lightning node does hold an entire map of the lightning network and all of the routes available. And it actually scales really well because rather than need all of the information on every single device connected to it, you're looking for pathways through the network. I mean, it doesn't scale perfectly. Obviously it has limitations. It causes ram. You need RAM in order to basically have this, this graph active so you can look through it. So if it gets really, really big, it's very, very difficult to manage on like a consumer device or, you know, your Raspberry PI might not be able to do it very well for a long time, but nonetheless it's a whole hell of a lot better than just kind of like raw map and list of the entirety of the network or doing like broadcast communication. And obviously handling a routing graph is a whole heck of a lot easier than handling all of the data on the Internet. Same thing with lightning. You know, obviously it's a whole heck of a lot easier to do a routing table for the lightning network and then know where and how you can route information or payments through lightning so that you can do that at hundreds of thousands of times in a minute. And your bitcoin node doesn't have to handle this explosion of data and transactions from every other single person in the world. Well, A DHT is BitTorrent's version, quote unquote of a routing table. It's just a big, I don't think graph really is the right word. But just think of it as. It's the way it's a distributed table, it's a distributed tree of hashes for users on the network that is, that doesn't cost an enormous amount of data. So basically anyone can run it if they want to. And updates to this graph are. Or upgrade updates to DHT are sent around the entire network of dht. Think of it like Bitcoin nodes, right? Is update the blockchain and everybody gets the update and everybody tries to sync. This is a little bit more best guess there's not like a consensus protocol. So if somebody's like got a different, a slightly different version, doesn't really matter. But you just reach out to this DHT network and you ask, you say like I'm looking for this hash which could be another person, it could be a BitTorrent a file or something like that. And there's a record basically on how to route. Like where do you find this user? And then the closest nodes, the nodes that you just randomly connect to give you the data necessary to establish the connection and you establish the connection peer to peer. So it's basically, it's kind of like DNS or any of these other things where you're just trying to figure out where another device is on the Internet. It's just a distributed one. It's why it makes a peer to peer network and is extremely difficult to censor, almost impossible now just because of the size of the BitTorrent network. They're literally like millions of nodes. And it's survived for like 25 years like going on a quarter of a century and obviously basically brought down the entire old infrastructure. The old industry of cable TV of closed off selling, you know, DVD prices like just completely changed the model and the delivery and the, the level of control that users had over their data. Like the, the reason things pushed to streaming like that was their concession. Users wanted on demand. They wanted to watch and have their content on any and every device that they owned. They did not want to pay for it twice and they did not want to watch it when someone else said that they could watch it. Now what's funny is after the capitulation of the industry and the like, I'm not sure if anybody remembers or how old, you know, whatever some of you are my age and, you know, and you grew up through this whole period, so you probably remember how these things were. But the difficulty if you ever, ever bought anything online or you ever had a digital file or something, the.
[00:38:52] The complete lack of ability to play it in multiple places. I remember.
[00:38:57] I. I don't remember what. See, like, what show it was. I think it might have been like the first season of Archer or something like that.
[00:39:06] And there was a documentary about, like, the moon landing and stuff. I don't know, just some. Just some stuff that, like, were shows I wanted to see or. I like the idea of supporting them. And so I didn't want to tour in it if I didn't have to. And it was on. And this was back when itunes was basically the only option.
[00:39:26] It was on, like, itunes, video or whatever they called it, I don't know. And I bought it for like 15 bucks or 20, 1999 or something for a first season of this thing. But this was really before, you know, everybody had a smartphone. It was really like everything. All your TV devices had apps. All your TVs themselves had apps that you downloaded. This was before all of this. This. So I was trying to figure out how to get it. I was just trying to get, like, the file out of itunes so that I could watch it on. I had a western digital little device which just like a little storage device that plugged in and watched it on your tv. It was kind of like the precursor to Apple tv. There actually was an Apple TV then, but it sucked really bad. I think it was like the very first version, and it was questionable at best, but I tried to shift it over there to use it. I could not figure out how to get the file. And there was like a.
[00:40:21] Some sort of, like, special type of file. So I didn't actually have, like, the. The file itself of the movie. There was some sort of, like, data protection thing. And I spent like an hour trying to do this and then realized, and, you know, hunting around that there was like, no way. I could not. I had just purchased this thing, and now I could not watch it on anything other than the computer itself that I had purchased it on. Logged into the itunes and I was dumbfounded. I was like, this is. How did they. How are they so stupid to not realize the state of technology and to think that this is going to last? And this was the. This was the future company, you know, this was Apple. Apple made itunes. They are the ones who pioneered allowing that very thing to happen with songs by paying for them 99 cents per song. Which again, that was a breakthrough at the time. If you wanted a song, you had to buy a whole album. That completely changed the nature of the industry and how music was delivered to consumers. And the cop. The, the record labels fought this so hard tooth and nail and it was literally only Apple that basically convinced them that was able to say, you're going to lose it either through bittorrent, either through file sharing and you're going to eat so much profit potential and market share or you're going to accept, you're going to concede this issue that you are basically bullheadedly attached to for no reason. You're going to concede that people can just buy the music that they want and you'll make it, you can make it available on iTunes. 99 cent a song. So which one do you want? 99 cents or zero? And Steve Jobs was right. He saw how, where things were going and that if they wanted to stay relevant, if they did not want to shoot themselves in the foot, it was by adapting to what consumers were demanding. But funny enough, we're actually kind of back towards it. Well, conclusion of my story, I had to ended up torrenting all the things that I had purchased on itunes anyway. So that was when I was like, all right, well I'm not gonna buy this again. I'll give them a decade I guess to fix their stupid credit crap. Yeah, it was ridiculous. I was so, so annoyed. If I just torrented at the beginning, I wouldn't have had, I would have saved an hour of my life in trying to figure out something that I wasn't even allowed, quote unquote allowed to do with something I had purchased. Now interestingly, after BitTorrent basically forced those concessions on the industry and everything shift towards streaming, everything's kind of like fallen back to the Internet version of so many of the problems that we had in kind of the analog world. And obviously everybody. I mean that's what this whole article basically prefaces this.
[00:43:09] The framing of all of this with is that we're in a broken web, that we are basically being the fact that there is this flood of information made put all the centers of power in deciding what and how specific information got in front of specific people.
[00:43:33] It was the ability to control the environment, to keep people on their platforms, to keep people in their advertising model. They needed eyes, they needed people addicted to the digital ecosystem. And so they designed and set up the social environments, the filters and the algorithms for what gets put in front of you in order to addict, addict us to it. And this was deliberate. This is not. This is literally the incentive. This is their whole. The whole structure must work this way or they lose. The social media that people are most addicted to is the winner, end of story. But what's funny is when people begin to see the problem, they. And they see things being censored. Because part of the problem is that if you are saying something that does not help that cause you will get pushed down, you will get shadow banned. I have been shadow banned. It's hilarious to look at like the analytics of your account. It's so obvious. It's so unbelievably obvious when it happens and how long it takes to actually have it undo. And that, that was it for me. Like, I still, I'm still on Twitter, but I do not treat it with any sort of.
[00:44:51] It's gone to the bottom of the barrel of like, Like, I just know, I know how this ends. You know, I'm not going to invest in a house that I literally can't buy insurance on and I can't buy a fire extinguisher for because that's what it feels like the more I invest. Which is funny because I have a pretty, I don't know, quote unquote successful Twitter account. But. But it just is so useless. There's nothing. This is why I've largely gone over like, I think of Nostr as my real network and Twitter as the thing that I can direct Noster on and as a, like a sounding board. I think about it, I think of it as like the worst relay in my Nostr web big network, but kind of the most unreliable relay in the, in the bunch. But you know, I've been talking so much about how bitcoin is set to re. Decentralize the web and this has made so much capital and focus on solving that next mile, solving the next layer of problem. And I think this is really where it is. It is in finding that sweet spot for the next decentralized, the next major step in decentralizing communication. And we are aware of. And the pressure has finally been building for solving that problem. I think Nostr, all of these examples that he gave and kind of hit the strengths, limitations and features of are perfect at showing just how much iteration and motivation there is in solving this problem. But they all do have kind of their, their upfront weaknesses or kind of their bottlenecks in some form or fashion. And that's why I think there's going to be a set of them working together, which will make a difference. Now the interesting thing about Picard and Pub Key more than anything else that I think makes just kind of a wild, like, I like, I have to say that there's, there's something really, really interesting about doing it this way because one of the most prominent or most promising things about the Nostra ecosystem is the web of trust and the content curation. The fact that they have built the tagging and semantic graph into this from the very beginning, like PubKey app isn't even available yet. It's still in sneak peek and private beta, which is coming very soon. So they've basically built the part of it that I think is where the most powerful benefit to Nostr will be. When it's built from the ground up in Pub Key, you can see how other people label and tag content. So if a bunch of people, like, if I'm just going through stuff and I just tag something as funny, which could be as simple as me putting like a laughy face on something, then like, you could have like a shortcut for that. But if I label something as funny and you just search for stuff that is funny, the things that I list as funny are gonna show up. Like, I am the one because you follow me, or we're friends or whatever you want to call that, because we're contact, we're in our contacts and we trust each other, at least to some degree based on our interactions or a show or you post stuff and I like the stuff that you post, whatever that may be, that is able to then inform what the con. What the nature of the content that we get exposed to. Like, that is a. That is a web of trust with content labeling to understand what it's about and what's relevant to it. And this is one of the things that I've been wanting to do with Nostr and it's also a significant part of why I built or why we are building Pear Drive. And what a lot of this is about is how do you get content that is try that someone else is trying to suppress that you can no longer even search for. Because there's oceans of content that is out there and data that is out there that just isn't convenient for Google. And so it doesn't show up in their search results, just totally coincidentally, not because of any nefarious intent. Obviously there wouldn't be incentives or anything for that to be the case. Google and their advertisers or their partners might want some information to be hard to get a hold of. And I think also the idea that, you know, this is some grand conspiracy when it's like base incentives. This is just. This is literally just how it works. You know, like if the CDC isn't going to post on their website all of the crimes that the CDC has committed and data about all of the lies that they have told because they have absolutely no reason to do it. So if then somehow the CDC became the only website we could visit to visit online, well, then we would just never be able to find that data. And that's just how stuff works. That's how people work. That's how the basic, like everybody is, in a sense, corrupt. Everybody has bias. Everybody has their own view of things and they tell themselves their own excuses when they make stupid mistakes. And you know what happens? You know, it feels like to be wrong. It feels exactly like being right.
[00:50:16] Exactly the same. You know why? Because nobody knows they are wrong when they are wrong. But that doesn't mean that they wouldn't hide the other alternative if they. If, especially if they were just ignorant. They just saw everybody else was wrong. So it's not some. Do you see some giant conspiracy. And it totally could be a conspiracy. I'm not even. I'm not saying it's not. I'm saying that it does not have to be, because this is literally how the world works. This is how people work. This myth that there is some paragon of objectivity and that science is perfect, or this is that like, just as if politics and people don't exist in certain realms when it's clearly not true. It simply is how things are. Errors are made. Tons of people believe things that are wrong and they think they are right. That includes you and me. That's not an argument. When somebody else is wrong, that is not an argument for why they are wrong. Like, if you just like start spouting off and I see that people do this all the time is like, well, people are always trying to confirm their bias. It's like, thanks for bringing up an axiom about human nature that is irrelevant to this conversation, which you're trying to do this because somehow, you know, you understand it. Well, then that means that it's clearly only the other guy who is subject to this. No, bringing that up suggests that you were probably. You were. You necessarily are subject to the exact same problem. This is why our ability to curate our own Internet experience is so unbelievably freaking important. Because it absolves the risk.
[00:51:50] It takes the risk of error to the edges of the network rather than the center. This is exactly why government control is such a disaster and such A horrible, horrible thing with horrible, horrible consequences is because when you have a monopoly on decision making and then you are wrong, which everybody is wrong about everything almost all of the time. And in fact, everything that we are right about, we are usually only right about kind of in the right direction. And then when we have technology to have to actually more finely grain, more finely grained understanding of the information and the data in our systems, we find out we are actually very, very wrong. We just happen to be right in correlation with the truth. And it wasn't until we had more technology and we could actually see deeper into the knowledge of what it is that we're doing. Like, think about it like a microscope. Like it might have been completely sensible to be like, demons show up in demons, live in the dirt and so you have to wash them off with holy water. And that might have actually been quote unquote correct. And there might have been a billion studies that suggest that's correct, only to find out that it's because we invent a micro, a microscope. And then now we see it's, it's bacteria and if you wash your hands, they come off. That is the story of humanity right there. Everything that we believe we know and everything that is right right now is right in a wrong way. Therefore, when you centralize and monopolize these things into giant platforms and huge mega corporations and governments, those errors have the largest possible impact and consequences as they can because individuals are not allowed to opt out and make their own. Basically mitigate the risk of that error by having a different perspective or having access to different knowledge. We become subject to the failure of society based on the lowest common denominator of everybody's ignorance about the world. And it's kind of the same thing whether you're on a big giant social media platform or a government or whatever. It is centralization in a general sense that leads to the increased risk of being wrong, which we are wrong all of the time about basically everything. This is why I think we have this cycle of centralization, decentralization, this two steps forward, one step back, because we build a new paradigm and learn how to interact with that paradigm. But then the easiest way to. Even, even in the new decentralized world, there's always the economies of scale, there's always consolidation tendencies and all of these things that end up leading to another pseudo centralization. There's always another layer of problem to solve that ends up being centralized. And then the last great leap of decentralization enables the, the environment to then take the next great leap in decentralization. And that is literally why I think we are in this zone where we have so many different solutions to this problem. And we're basically trying to see which one falls out of the mix, which one catches the momentum or becomes kind of core to the new environment. And I really think the re leaning on BitTorrent is like a huge benefit to this approach specifically. And then also the really cool thing is that they've made it super lightweight and this can be a progressive web app. Now, for anybody who doesn't know, that means that this can basically the entire thing can be run like a.
[00:55:34] A web app, a, like a website. So basically this can't be banned from the App Store, or it can be banned from the App Store, but there's nothing anybody can do to prevent it from continuing to work off of the App Store. You can just save it in your Safari browser or whatever it is as an app on your phone, and then boot it up and it just boots it up like a live website. And then the entire thing can run in a progressive web app, which just makes this incredibly censorship resistant because there's no. You don't even need the App Store approval in order to get this out there for people. Then another major element is the fact that this is a DNS replacement. The whole idea here is another layer to connect to people and that. And I got to see this actually in their demonstration. And one of the. This was back on December 15, they did a kind of a breakdown and demo and kind of walking through a lot of the different pieces of this and how you would interact with it. And one of the things that just struck me is that you literally just have an HTTP URL. So just be like.
[00:56:48] And then you have a long public key and you do a dot slash at the end when you're putting it in the domain because otherwise the browser will now see that as like a search result or search query. So you got to put a dot slash at the end of it. But that's it. It's just, it is literally just a URL after you configure or install the DNS side of it, which is just the thing that's plugging you into the DHT and everything so that your browser can speak this. You can just go to this, like, normal website that I think is a huge.
[00:57:23] Because it doesn't require new infrastructure, it doesn't require people. I mean, and it does in a sense, obviously, because it's software and things that you have to download, but it doesn't require the user to change their habits and how they interact with stuff like as like with Keat and Pear Drive and everything, which I love, but it does not. You can't just go to it inside of a browser. And it does change the nature of how someone is interacting with this web. You can't just like click on a bunch of links and go to this and open it up in a browser just in the normal operation of a phone or device or anything like that. And that's what people are used to, that's what people are going to see and have some sort of a relationship with. And the fact that this can take advantage of that is pretty powerful. And one of the other things I've always leaned on and thought was really important about this, and this is why NOSTR has always been at the center of a lot of what I have wanted to build and what I think is going to be really important going forward is its utter simplicity. But again, going back to why I've always thought hole punch might have a place in the Noster universe and Picara may even be this actually, this might actually fit better with the whole NOSTR stack, just because it's even lighter weight and even more simplified is that there's nothing about the relays specifically that is nostr, other than the fact that the algorithm, excuse me, the acronym has relay in it. But the type of connection is totally generic. Like you can obviously just connect to clients, but you also could run Picar, you can run PUB Key Core, I guess you, I guess it would be pubkey Core. I'm not sure exactly how the, the stack is if PUB Key Core is Picar and DHT and all the different pieces of that, I guess go into PUB Key Core. So you would be running PUB Key Core as, as I understand it, but there's no reason why that can't also be a part of something like nostr. Now I'm sure there will be.
[00:59:33] The question is always, you know, implementation details and format. Like, you know, does the tagging system have anything to do with Noster? Are they just going to be. Are you just adding complexity for no reason? But honestly, I think having a peer to peer as well as a relay option, if you can cross those standards or you can like, I'm, I'm curious, I would be really curious what the tagging system looks like at a low level as far as like a format and how that data is pulled, I guess is. Or how just how the data is formatted and how it would relate to just a normal signed Message like something in nostril. Because this is literally what he describes in this is something that I've wanted to do and have been working on just frameworks, even though I'm just busy on other stuff. So I haven't toyed with it at all. But I think about pretty regularly is how to do that sort of stuff with Nostr, is how do I tag stuff? Because this is something that I do in my own life all of the time, is tag stuff based on subject, save it in the right place, you know, and this is something that I've talked about with AI on this show a lot, is putting together an auto tagging system and organizing things and automatically naming file names and writing a caption for it so that I can easily search for it later. Like, this is like a perfect example of using the crowd to do this without even doing it. You know, it's not even like I'm reaching out to a bunch of people and like, can you please tag this as a funny meme? Or something? Like, everybody is just doing it for. For themselves. And then you are using your entire web of trust, your entire group of contacts and everybody in your network to almost create this weighted database of what is relevant to you and your interests. And what's funny is this is kind of a lot. It's kind of similar to the idea that Svetsky and their crew have been doing and thinking about with Satlantis on top of Nostr. Their use case is more specific and less generic for what they're trying to do with it. But it's. It's basically the same idea when it comes to kind of the tagging and using your web of trust in order to find and see the relationship to stuff. So, like, one of the examples, you should really go look, go to PubKey app and look at the pictures and just kind of get a sense of how this is going to work when the actual app is out. Because it showed like. Like I could look at people and other people have literally tagged them with information or something that they have saved or. And like. And there's like a little list of like the different icons that you can see. So it's very similar actually to. I talk about how great the experience was in Mutiny Wallet when I set up my first, first fediment or E Cash Mint, because I had no idea what I was looking at. There's like, you know, 20 different options. I'm like, oh my God, what are any of these? And then I just went and I saw one and it was like, Ben, Carmen, Odell, Preston. Like, just a bunch of different accounts that I was fully aware of, and all people that I could directly message anytime I needed to, and people that I follow and respect in this space were all on one. Like, I just saw all of their icons on one of the mints and I was just like, okay, well, I'll just use that one. And I'm just testing it out. But suddenly I have. It just struck me how beautiful that was that I could see what other people trusted. And it saved me. It was. It was basically like being able to read the review, the implicit review of, like, all of these people that I know in the space who, without having to read any reviews, without having to go look for them or see if they had an account on the right website where that review was being left, or go to Yelp and see if they had a section for E. Cash Mints. Like, I just. It was all the separation and the confusion and the annoyance and the lack of trust and the bots that I have to sort through and the garbage on Amazon reviews and everything, all of that immediately went out the window. And I just had the people that I know in the space and specifically that I know are pretty good at doing their homework on a lot of this stuff.
[01:04:03] I could see which one they were trusting. And it was like, okay, well, if I'm just going to test this out before I do any due diligence, I'm at least going to be able to leverage my peers to know which one to do here. And in the. In a world where there is just digital everything and there's an unlimited amount of fake, you know, we're potentially even in the dead Internet era. Not sure if you've heard this theory is that most of the Internet now is just bots and completely curated stuff to rage bait and fake accounts and all sorts of stuff to just manipulate and push the conversation constantly in different routes and to give the appearance of.
[01:04:47] These are real likes and real people who think this, to basically manipulate the social wind to be able to give the appearance of pressure. And, oh, everybody should have this opinion because, look, this has 300,000 likes. And that means that all of these people believe this and think this. So you better believe it and think it too. And you're going to be stupid because, you know, nobody's gonna 300,000 like your post if it's not this socialist garbage here. And it's so crazy how subtle and beautiful the fix to that is that, like, I don't give a shit what any of Those people think, I don't know who those 300,000 morons are that think socialism is gonna fix this country. I care about what bitcoiners think. I specifically care about what bitcoiners, who I trust and value, think. And the fact that Pub Key is basically recognizing that and pushing for that out the gate, like, that's kind of like foundational to what this even is, is really cool. Is it like, oh, you know, you know, I can find Greg Zazz or whatever, and I'll have like, okay, These are the 10 people that I trust, and they've all listed or tagged Greg Zazh as a potato. And it's like, okay, well, I know that I'm going to get potato if I follow Greg. And what kind of open ecosystem, what kind of variety and like, innovation does this allow? Just in being able to utilize that in separate groups of people and in different communities. And then another thing that I thought was really, really cool that I specifically saw in the demo, like, this was like kind of talked about in. I think this was like mentioned in this, that you can make. Excuse me, you can make new keys.
[01:06:39] But I don't. I don't. It's hard to appreciate how amazing that experience is because this is something with Keat is. And they actually talk about this when it comes to hole punch, is that putting identity on top of Keat because of how Keat works is actually really difficult. And that's true. Identity in Keat actually took a really, really long time and it had some issues like in its implementation and stuff. And that makes sense with the way it's built, that it would in fact be a bit of an issue because the keys are built into the hypercores and hyperdrives. And then you have to extract abstract another identity on top of that, as opposed to being that being your baseline. And then you extrapolate everything else but going back to Pub Key and how they do it. So if you just have your public key or you just have your like main ID, you can actually create an infinite number of sub IDs for any other accounts you want to do, like throwaway accounts, or you want to just like randomly log into something that you don't want attached to you and you want to try it out. You just kind of want to stay at arm's length for a little bit until you've tested it out and felt the waters, okay, this is trustworthy, blah, blah, blah. I mean, not only does, like logging in with these sorts of things and being able to just get into a website or have an account with a signature and being able to pull your profile and account and details with you, which is freaking awesome. Not only is that a massive, like utterly astonishing security upgrade from the ridiculous setup that we have today, but then also being able to just like literally in an instant, like even in the demo they showed it and it was just like a second create. 1, 2, 3, 4, boom. I just created four new accounts. I could log in with any of them, use them to log into a website or message somebody, or create a new account and a new id. It could be in a non account, it could be my throwaway and if I don't want it, boom. Just delete, remove. And they're all sub keys. So you can just create as many as you want and delete them as quickly as you want. And that's another thing that I feel like for the user experience, for being able to utilize that, having that in like kind of foundational to this, I think is a really big thing. Because that's another thing that Nostr has with keys is their key management and sub keys and stuff. And in fact both Nostr and Hole Punch kind of have that friction because of the direction they took with what to build first. And I find it interesting that Pub key specifically kind of started with a solution to all of the things that Nostr and Hole Punch still need to work out and are kind of struggling with after having already started to build up their network effect. And one of the other things too is that I still can't and maybe I don't have enough technical knowledge on how exactly all these things can be plugged in together. Because Noster IDs and stuff is definitely something I've wanted to create in Pear Drive or use in Pear Drive, but I also have this problem where I want everything, I want everything to be sub keys. Like I love that idea of having a master key and specifically a master key that I can take offline because, and this was specifically mentioned in this one, is that you could have like kind of a hardware, an offline kind of cold storage wallet that you create a sub key for and then you give all the permissions and you attach everything to that sub key. But then things can be moved. You can still use the master key to make changes or to keep your identity, even in the case of your sub key getting compromised, or at least as I'm understanding it, you keep your real key away from danger, so to speak, but then simply enabling a session and an app to access that and pull the information from it but keeping that separate, like that's one of the big things about NOSTR is, and I think he even mentions that as a limitation right now. Like one of the weaknesses in NOSTR is the lack of key delegation and then the fact that your identity isn't your, isn't the way to route to you. It's not the, it's not your connection data. You still have to go to a relay and hope that they're connected to that same relay. Whereas with the DHT and BitTorrent you are your key. And that's actually the same thing with Hole Punch is you are literally your key. So if someone has your key, your public key, they can go and ask the DHT, they can go ask the BitTorrent network, or in the case of Hole Punch, they ask the holpunch, the pair stack network, whatever, where is this user. And then you can connect directly to them and specifically connect to their data. So even if they aren't online, you pull whatever is hosted with your signature, like with your key can be accessed from wherever it is hosted or still live on the network. I just find it really interesting that this one has solved some of the biggest problems before as a matter of course for what this protocol even is. It's like this is identity with key creation with a alternative DNS that is built on BitTorrent. So you can find anybody and you connect to anybody and you connect to any computer that they have delegated as, as they as them, like they have signed that is theirs. It's completely censorship resistant in the exact same way that any peer to peer protocol as, as BitTorrent is censorship resistant because it's literally using BitTorrent to do it. And it has a tagging and web of trust system so that you can have a semantic trust weight rated trust weighted relationship with all of the data and stuff that you can access with the other people that you follow. And that experience that I've gotten to see in some areas with Noster and in some areas with Hole Punch, it's kind of, it's bringing together the best of both worlds in a sense, which is why I'm really, really intrigued by this idea and this as a platform for stuff and you know, talking about Pear Drive like we've been to the drawing board a couple of different times here. But if it ends up becoming really useful to have this as a connection method or it becomes easier to host Stuff data more directly though, I still, I still think the, I still think we probably made the right choice just because we're just doing file storage and having the seating and download from many peers and everything. I, I kind of think we've done it right and there won't be any major drawback. Even if we could have just built it with PubKey, Core and Picar and all of that stuff. We'll see. I'll do. We'll be doing lots and lots of different testing and stuff. But I'm, I'm in this for the long haul. If we have to go back to the. We have to go back to the drawing board because I'm gonna make this shit work. I'm just, I'm done with not having this app. I still can't believe that this app doesn't exist. It doesn't make any sense. The Internet has been capable of this forever and especially with file hosting and storage like this is this is, this is what it's all supposed to be. But going back to the whole key delegation thing is I just want to find like I've been looking for. That's been my limitation, I think, with onboarding new people is how do you solve the key delegation and key problem so that these other environments, so that NOSTR and so that hole punch and these things are A easily recoverable in the case of some sort of a problem or lost device and B, how do you make it so that the user experience is as good as it can be to not scare the crap out of normies and also being secure, but just make it easy for people to build something out there, try it, and then make it more secure later if they want to basically upgrade it, upgrade their security and their sovereignty without losing anything, without having to give it up at the beginning and also and at the same time not completely scaring them away with some crazy new things like write down these keys and do this thing like what's that? Where do we find that? Like magic sauce. And so as soon as somebody tells me there's another public key system like like pub key, I'm immediately thinking, oh well, can we use bip?
[01:16:03] What's it. Oh my God. Bip 80? No, I don't know. Whatever. The one, the deterministic randomness bip is the one that lets you just generate any other kind of keys and hashes and whatever from one set of keys. Is it? My immediate thinking is like, okay, well how does that relate to those things? Because I literally want a master key. I want to be able to boot up my cold card queue, even though this would not be the normal user experience. But anybody who wants to be Truly sovereign and wants to run their own quote unquote node and have their backup of all of their stuff should do it this way if they really want to be secure, keep it offline. How to boot up my cold card Q or whatever my hardware wallet of choice is and then generate a key for my device and then use that to generate my hypercores and generate my nostr identity and do it all in the background so that I don't see it and have a delegation system where if one of those gets compromised, I can just issue a new one and my main key never leaves my hardware device and I can always sign for a new, for a new identity or for a new key to be shifted over and that something about the system itself recognizes that. And the fact that pubkey has thought about this, like the, the identity, the connection, the address, as in the fact that like you're connecting directly to somebody and this is a replacement for DNS and the censorship resistant and then the web of trust, like the fact that this is really at the core of what they have created to bootstrap this thing. It's just really interesting. It's just really, really interesting. And I'm really curious how this is going to fit into the stack of all of this. And the more and more I see development on this, the more I see people experimenting with different ways of doing this and I see more people with funding who are building this, building an alternative way and thinking about what the most important thing is.
[01:18:09] I just, I don't see how we don't change this. I don't see how we aren't going to reach a point where something just clicks. And I think we already, maybe, maybe in hindsight we've already hit that point, we just need some more Lego pieces to stick on it. And then it becomes something truly different and truly unique that just the generic person can use. And right now we're still in the technical doldrums where only like highly technical people who really care about censorship, resistance and sovereignty and privacy and kind of the cypherpunk ethos are the only people really digging into this and actually playing with these tools right now. But the pressure and the need and the motivation for this and realizing just how crap all of these, experiencing the cost of this era of recentralization we've had on the web, the more and more people feel it, I think the more and more people are going to ask that question, they're going to be looking for something just like this. So with that we'll close this out thank you guys for listening. I hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did. Don't forget to check out the BitKit wallet. Like I said, I'll have my address, my my pub key in the show notes so that you can follow me on Nostr, you can add me on BitKit. And don't forget to check out my full referral if you want 20,000 free sats and you want to stack sats on everything you do in fiat, because why the hell else would you even use Fiat if you aren't stacking sats with it at the same time? That just doesn't make any sense. I'll catch you guys on the next episode. I am Guy Swan. This is Bitcoin Audible and until next time, everybody. Take it easy, guys.
[01:20:09] As soon as culture has reached a certain level, probably measured largely by its literacy, cryptography appears spontaneously.
[01:20:21] David Kahn the Code Breakers.
